Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cory Allen (Musician)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. There is a clear consensus that he does not meet our notability requirement. JohnCD (talk) 21:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Cory Allen (Musician)

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I can't find any articles on this person in GNews. The Ghits don't seem to elevate him to notability. His association with a record label isn't relevant since notability isn't inherited. Propose delete Mr. Vernon (talk) 01:29, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

--- Mr. Vernon, I appreciate your input on this article. However, I must contest the suggestion that this artist is not notable. I've been a fan of this culture of the Arts for years, that said, I believe I have an insight to the notability and cultural relevance of this society of the arts that could broaden the importance of this article for you. Although, as you stated, artists such as this are not making up-to-the-minute news breaks on GNews as a top 50 Billboard Pop act might, they are part of a powerful force of artists that are continuing the tradition of the arts that exist beyond the stratosphere of mainstream news channels. These artists are taking the aesthetics of sound and moving it from your record player to incredible museums such as Museum_of_Modern_Art, Hirshhorn_Museum_and_Sculpture_Garden, Seattle_Art_Museum and literally hundreds of others in the form of sound_art installations. I personally have seen Cory Allen featured in international magazines and art news sources such as Wire Magazine The_Wire_(magazine), Guitar Player Magazine Guitar_Player, Cyclic Defrost Cyclic_Defrost, Exclaim! Exclaim!, and countless others. This music exists on the same plane as visual arts and is of vital importance to the continued growth and richness of the art scene in America and all over the world. For reference and a broader understanding of the size and relevance of this culture, the following are a very few artists who are peers of Cory Allen (some of who he has worked with) who have had Wiki articles approved: Alva_Noto, Richard_Chartier, Ryoji_Ikeda, Taylor_Deupree, Machinefabriek, Kim_Cascone, Raster-Noton, Frank_Bretschneider, Jan_Jelinek, Pansonic, 12k, Touch_Music, Oren_Ambarchi, Christian_Fennesz, Biosphere_(musician), BJNilsen Hopefully, this information has given you more insight into the relevance, impact and huge culture of art that exists with this type of music and culture of which Cory Allen is an integral part.

In closing, I respectfully request you look deeper into this topic and consider removing your nomination for deletion for this artist's proposed Wikipedia page. I love Wikipedia because it constantly introduces me to entire new worlds of culture, technology, and universal wonder. It would be a devastating hammer-blow to the world art community to keep information about an established and internationally recognized artist from the public's knowledge base and deprive other's of finding their way into new worlds of thought, information, and artistic inspiration. I'm sure you can tell how passionate I am about the artists in this culture, and I hope you consider approving this article with the knowledge that there are tens of thousands of people out there that share the same light, passion and enthusiasm for this genre of expression. Lotusleaves (talk) 04:34, 7 June 2010 (UTC) lotusleaves


 * Comment Please note that "lotusleaves" wrote the article up for AfD. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 03:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment The genre and art form is not up for deletion. This article's subject simply needs to be verified and referenced with significant coverage.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.181.195.10 (talk) 18:27, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * 

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:36, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Added various verified references for biographical information.Lotusleaves (talk) 23:57, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Added more verified third party sources which show notability of the artist.Lotusleaves (talk) 00:10, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete - not notable, fails WP:MUSICBIO, WP:OTHERSTUFF is not relevant to discussion. GregJackP (talk) 21:16, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment GregJackP, This article meets the first Criteria for musicians and ensembles: 'A musician or ensemble may be notable if it meets at least one of the following criteria: 1. Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable.' Please see article references 1) Sound Projector, 2) Tokafi article, 5) The_Wire_(magazine), and 6) Cyclic_Defrost. Lotusleaves (talk) 21:32, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment the references do not meet the requirements of WP:MUSICBIO. #1 (thesoundprojector) is a trivial, one paragraph mention and is not a reliable source (blog).  #2 (tokafi) is not a reliable source (as covered at WP:RS), although it is more in depth.  #3 (cory-allen.com) is self-published and not reliable nor independent.  #4 (quiet design) is self-published and not reliable nor independent.  #5 (the wire) does not mention the subject of the article.  #6 (cyclicdefrost) may or may not be reliable, but only mention Allen in passing (trivial).  Notability has not been established, nor are all of the the references reliable.  Regards, GregJackP (talk) 23:08, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete, insufficiently notable. Hairhorn (talk) 00:05, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment This artist may not be on the top 40 charts as far as notability goes, but he is the first 2 hits if you search for "Cory Allen" on google in addition to having 5 google image entries on its first page. He's not totally obscure by any means. trichocereus 21:45, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I find it fascinating that the first and only contribution of trichocereus was to this AfD. Please read WP:SOCKS. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 04:02, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment First, you did nothing to refute what I said. Second, as you so pointedly said, I am indeed new to this.  I was just trying to contribute.  I took a contrary position and you assumed the worst.  I've got to start somewhere.  If I had added a comment to another article you were discussing and disagreed would you so quickly take this tack?  Google "Cory Allen".  On the first page I found this wiki entry.  I usually check wiki first.  Ergo, here I am.  Again, perhaps he's not as obscure as you seem to believe.  Thanks. trichocereus 23:35, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The page in question doesn't even show up in the first page of Google results. If you want a sockpuppet investigation, enjoy. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 04:33, 10 June 2010 Comment WP:NOASSUMESOCK Lotusleaves (talk) 15:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Sorry if I typed it wrong, it's "Cory Allen musician" that you search for.  Try it.  You still haven't even responded to my first post, what the hell is this?  Why all the hostility?  trichocereus 23:45, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Number of Google hits doesn't really count for much around here. What counts is third party coverage from reliable sources. This guy has nowhere near the notability of Fennesz or Ryoji Ikeda, to pick a couple of the names from the laundy list given above. Hairhorn (talk) 06:08, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I truly can't believe the people critiquing this article. I love reading Wikipedia and decided to register in order to help build the database and make an entry for an important artist. All I've been met with has been terse hostility from rather lugubrious registrants who seem to think they are admins. This experience has exposed a part of Wikipedia that I wouldn't have imagine existed, I am certainly going to email Wikipedia in hopes of finding a reasonable answer for this type of pointless hostility towards knowledge. I also don't understand why anyone would have a problem entering information about an artist that in 5 years, emerged as a new voice in a pre-existing art movement. Are only artist who have been around for 20 years like Fennesz or Ryoji Ikeda acceptable here? This entire arts culture is communicated through magazines, review websites (companies, not personal), radio interviews and word of mouth. How do you all expect it to evolve to your stringent level of 'notability' if information isn't posted in places such Wikipedia so that more people can LEARN about it??? Perhaps the folks sitting around recreationally scanning the AfD pages are sending their post to the wrong address. As a side note: I find the suggestion of "sockpuppeting" insulting (after I looked up what it was) and quite childish. I also had to look up to see what a 'laundy list' was. Peace.99.184.76.216 (talk) 08:46, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment I think that The National Endowment for the Arts, The New York City Department of Cultural Affairs, The William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, The Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, and The Thendara Foundation would agree that the references/links to the American Music Center journalism pieces are verifiable. Or else AMC has a lot of explaining to do to its donors, and the FBI. MIght check with the founding editor Frank J. Oteri for verifiability as well. Peace. 99.184.76.216 (talk) 09:05, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  01:25, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete. I do wish the subject success, but the article currently fails WP:MUSICBIO. Lack of significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Location (talk) 04:08, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete: No significant coverage has been shown. Joe Chill (talk) 15:38, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Added reference which meets 'Criteria for musicians and ensembles; 12.Has been the subject of a half-hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network.' Reference 9 'Allen/Quiet Design feature on Germany's WDR3' - Allen/Quiet Design was the subject of an hour long radio feature on one of Germany's largest national radio stations from which the quote on sound was taken.Lotusleaves (talk) 17:00, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - it appears that he was feature on the show, but that he was not the subject of the show. More of a passing mention, than the subject of the show. GregJackP (talk) 18:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Did you listen to the feature? Its an hour-long feature on the label and Allen, with about a half hour of Allen being interviewed by Raphael Smarzoch about his label and philosophy on sound. My buddy from Germany sent me a copy of it that he recorded. The feature is called 'Guitar 3.0' because the push off point for the feature is about a Quiet Design release Allen produced and played on that has been celebrated as an innovation in that arts scene. Hopefully this broadens the scope for you. Peace.Lotusleaves (talk) 20:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment I tried the search for "Cory Allen musician" as suggested and got four Wikipedia connected hits, and five that were either blogs or appeared to be catchall adverts. Moving the quotes to give "Cory Allen" "musician" gave more results, most of whom seemed to be someone else, and those that weren't appeared to be bloggish in nature. I only went through the first eight pages, but if there's nothing there there's not going to be much further on in my experience. Self-published - but so were the Beatles on Apple... However, they had been on Parlophone before that. About the best reference, to my mind, is the WDR3 feature. WDR3 is somewhat equivalent to the BBC's Radio 3 in featuring both classical music, jazz, and sometimes off the wall stuff that tends not to get aired elsewhere. Peridon (talk) 20:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Cheers, thanks for the research and helpful perspective/information Peridon Peace.Lotusleaves (talk) 20:37, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.