Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Craig Bonner


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. While a number of sources have been presented, and there is no argument that they relate to Mr. Bonner, nor that they are reliable, the question of whether the coverage is independent and significant is a matter of fact to be determined by consensus of editors. All but one contributors to this debate having recommended deletion despite the sources, that consensus has as such been established. Stifle (talk) 12:10, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Craig Bonner

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This is a retired hockey player who never made it to the NHL. The highest level he made it to was the AHL where he played 12 games (far short of the 200 game requirement per WP:NHOCKEY). As a coach and general manager he's no more notable, having only worked in junior hockey. T.C.Haliburtontalk nerdy to me 17:29, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of British Columbia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Rcsprinter123    (banter)  @ 15:58, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails to meet either WP:NHOCKEY or WP:GNG. Jakejr (talk) 03:19, 28 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
 * The article notes: Tom Gaglardi has found his man.
 * The article notes: Tom Gaglardi has found his man.

Now, he's just waiting to see if Craig Bonner will accept the challenge.The Blazers owner said Bonner has been offered the general manager's job with the club.

...

Bonner has been the front-runner for the job since Dean Clark was removed from his duties with the club in November.

Brian Fortin has been the interim GM since January.During the past six season, Bonner was the assistant general manager and assistant coach with the Vancouver Giants.

Bonner, also played for the Blazers and got his coaching start in Kamloops as an assistant.
 * The article notes: First-year general manager says his Blazers are learning from first-half lessonsCraig Bonner is starting to see the pieces start to fall into place.The rookie general manager of the Kamloops Blazers came into the job knowing changes needed to be made.
 * The article notes: First-year general manager says his Blazers are learning from first-half lessonsCraig Bonner is starting to see the pieces start to fall into place.The rookie general manager of the Kamloops Blazers came into the job knowing changes needed to be made.
 * The article notes: First-year general manager says his Blazers are learning from first-half lessonsCraig Bonner is starting to see the pieces start to fall into place.The rookie general manager of the Kamloops Blazers came into the job knowing changes needed to be made.

With two months remaining in the regular season, he's starting to see the changes make a difference to the Blazers.
 * There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Craig Bonner to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
 * Cunard (talk) 06:16, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Craig Bonner to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
 * Cunard (talk) 06:16, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Cunard (talk) 06:16, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Davewild (talk) 11:57, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Five of the six articles are not independent as they are from one of the Kamloops Blazers' sponsors and the other is just routine sports coverage which falls under WP:NOTNEWS.

The nominator did make a minor error in the total number of minor league games played by the subject. He appeared in 74 minor league games, however the subject is still not notable as an ice hockey player. Deadman137 (talk) 03:08, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I have been unable to find a source verifying that Kamloops This Week is a sponsor of the Kamloops Blazers. Do you have a source for that? Cunard (talk) 04:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You obviously didn't look very hard, as you can see in the following links.
 * Deadman137 (talk) 19:40, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It's unclear how these articles establish that Kamloops This Week is a sponsor of the Kamloops Blazers. Perhaps you could clarify. A search for "Kamloops This Week" on the page returns nothing. Cunard (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It's unclear how these articles establish that Kamloops This Week is a sponsor of the Kamloops Blazers. Perhaps you could clarify. A search for "Kamloops This Week" on the page returns nothing. Cunard (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Here are more sources about the subject from The Kamloops Daily News and The Vancouver Sun:
 * The article notes: "The Kamloops Blazers have signed vice-president and general manager Craig Bonner to a contract extension.The WHL club announced Tuesday that Bonner has signed a 'multi-year contract extension.' Details weren't disclosed....Bonner played for Blazers between 1989 and 1993, winning league championships in 1990 and 1992 and a Memorial Cup in 1992. He came back to the Blazers to serve as an assistant coach between 1996 and 2002, and worked as a general manager and assistant coach with the Vancouver Giants between 2002 and 2008.The Blazers hired Bonner to be general manager on April 25, 2008.Kamloops' five seasons under Bonner have featured four playoff appearances. In 2008-09, the Blazers were 33-33-2-4, sixth in the Western Conference, but were swept out of the first round by the Kelowna Rockets."
 * The article notes: "For assistant coach Craig Bonner, the game brought back memories of a triple overtime game he was behind the bench for as an assistant with the Kamloops Blazers in 1998.'It was the WHL final against the Calgary Hitmen,' said Bonner. 'We lost 3-2 and went on to lose the series in five games. So it's not a good memory.'Bonner's longest as a player was with the Blazers in 1993 against the Seattle Thunderbirds.'Hayzer was the coach and it was the first minute of double OT and we were awarded a penalty shot and scored,' said the former defenceman."
 * The article notes: "His general manager in Kamloops, Craig Bonner, is a former player, former assistant with the Giants and younger brother of Scott Bonner, his former GM in Vancouver.“Coming back home, I really didn’t know what was going to happen,” Hay said. “I just was excited about the opportunity of coming back here to work with Craig Bonner and the ownership group and the players. Did it feel right putting on the Blazer logo again? That’s kind of a good question. It was different....Craig Bonner has been pleased with the start and having Hay back on board.“It’s been excellent, so far,” Bonner said. “I played for Hayzer in junior and we worked together with the Giants and obviously we had a lot of success there as an organization. I think there is a comfort level between us. We’ve known each other a long time and we believe in a lot of the same things. As an organization, it’s been a very positive move.“Last year was a tough year for us but the players have really bought in to what the coaching staff is trying to do here, and they’re relishing it. We started with six of our first eight games on the road so, realistically, if we were .500 at that point, I would have been happy. But we exceeded that and I give the players credit.”"
 * The article notes: "Assistant coach-GM Craig Bonner, the superconductor through which everything was wired in hockey operations, became the Kamloops Blazers' general manager.Craig Bonner, who captained Hay's team in Kamloops nearly two decades ago, was so valuable, it takes two guys to replace him. But Bonner's position as a buffer between Hay and players can't be replaced.It might seem like a small thing, but isn't. Hay is a demanding, unyielding coach. What good coach isn't? Craig Bonner was the classic 'good-cop' assistant, but knew Hay from the old neighborhood and was able to get his boss to stand down if the intensity red-lined. Or stoke that intensity when more was needed.'At times, if I did get emotional, Craig was always there to go in and talk to the veteran guys and the veteran guys would talk to younger guys,' Hay said. 'You have to know when to push hard and when to back off. Craig was a good sounding board for that."
 * The article notes: "Craig Bonner has made his list and checked it twice.Actually, the Kamloops Blazers' general manager has checked it three or four times. Maybe more.It's all part of his preparations for the CHL's two-round import draft that began this morning at 6 o'clock with the QMJHL's Saint John Sea Dogs, having acquired the first pick from the Halifax Mooseheads, making a pick."
 * There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Craig Bonner to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".Cunard (talk) 04:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Craig Bonner to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".Cunard (talk) 04:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * You still haven't proven how this is more than just routine sports coverage. Deadman137 (talk) 19:41, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * "Routine sports coverage" like reports about sports scores do not provide significant biographical information about the subject. The sources I've linked above do provide significant biographical information so establish notability per Notability. Cunard (talk) 04:33, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You should read a little lower in the Wikipedia article that you keep citing which clearly states:
 * "Publication in a reliable source is not always good evidence of notability:


 * Wikipedia is not a promotional medium. Self-promotion, paid material, autobiography, and product placement are not valid routes to an encyclopedia article. The barometer of notability is whether people independent of the topic itself (or of its manufacturer, creator, author, inventor, or vendor) have actually considered the topic notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial works of their own that focus upon it—without incentive, promotion, or other influence by people connected to the topic matter."


 * Every single article that you have presented fails the criteria outlined in the last sentence, meaning the subject fails WP:GNG. Deadman137 (talk) 23:34, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Even if Kamloops This Week is disregarded (I don't see the evidence supporting that conclusion yet), The Kamloops Daily News and The Vancouver Sun are independent of the subject.The Kamloops Daily News and The Vancouver Sun cannot be considered from "people connected to the topic matter".Cunard (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment: Notability (sports)/FAQ says: "Q6: What constitutes 'non-routine' secondary coverage for sports?A6: Routine news coverage of sporting events, such as descriptions of what occurred, is not considered to be sufficient basis for an article, following Wikipedia's policy of not being a place for routine news coverage. There should be significant coverage directly related to the subject. In addition to Wikipedia's guidance on reliable sources, also see Wikipedia's guidance on biographies of living persons for more information." Whether there is "significant coverage directly related to the subject" determines whether the coverage is "routine" or not. Not other criteria. In this case, it is clear from my above quotes that the sources directly discuss the subject. Cunard (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That isn't true at all. There are large numbers of things that are considered routine coverage which aren't just because of a lack of significant coverage. For example local politicians of small towns for example generally have local coverage of them considered to be routine coverage because all local politicians will have coverage. Or to bring it back to sports, the are things like local youth athlete of the week type articles, they will have significant coverage in those articles, but those are considered local routine coverage and wouldn't get that athlete an article on Wikipedia. Generally local news about local junior players has typically been considered not enough to pass notability, it usually requires them also having articles from papers outside their region. -DJSasso (talk) 19:51, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The Vancouver Sun is not a local source. Vancouver is roughly 350 km from Kamloops, and The Vancouver Sun is a major newspaper. Cunard (talk) 06:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. Fails NHOCKEY and GNG.  Can be re-created when/if he ever does.  Patken4 (talk) 14:19, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Per WP:VAGUEWAVE, please clarify why you believe the subject fails GNG. Cunard (talk) 06:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I see most of the articles above being about the team he is the general manager of, not about the Craig Bonner. They're more about the job he's doing and not about him. Patken4 (talk) 22:30, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Many of the sources I quoted above discuss him. Example: "Bonner played for Blazers between 1989 and 1993, winning league championships in 1990 and 1992 and a Memorial Cup in 1992. He came back to the Blazers to serve as an assistant coach between 1996 and 2002, and worked as a general manager and assistant coach with the Vancouver Giants between 2002 and 2008." From Notability: "'Significant coverage' addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." Cunard (talk) 01:55, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails to meet NHOCKEY. What coverage I can find is routine. -DJSasso (talk) 19:51, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.