Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Croatia women's national junior handball team


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There isn't a consensus for deleting these articles as a group. Multiple editors suggested individual nominations as warranted. (non-admin closure) (t &#183; c)  buidhe  15:00, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Croatia women's national junior handball team

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These are multiple national junior handball teams. There does not appear to be a notability guideline within sports notability guidelines for handball, and there does not appear to be a special notability guideline for teams, so general notability guidelines are the only guidelines that are applicable. The sources to these articles do not amount to independent significant coverage, so the teams do not appear to be notable.



Added entry/entries


Robert McClenon (talk) 05:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Handball-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete all I'm pretty sure any teams in a junior league aren't notable. Unless there is something super fantastical about them. More so with these though because they seem to lack in-depth coverage in multiple reliable sources. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:42, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete all As per nom, fails GNG. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 06:47, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iceland-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Norway-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Slovenia-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Yugoslavia-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep As one of the biggest team sports in the world all junior handball national teams are important. Else you have to delete all junior national teams of all team sports such as basketball, ice hockey etc. It looks for me that again some Users form the USA how doesn't know handball want to deleted all handball articles. If I google 2019 Men's Junior World Handball Championship i get 18'9000 google news articles. If I google Hungary national junior handball team i get 5070 google news results. For comparison if I google Hungary men's national under-18 basketball team I get 1160 Google News results and for Hungary national under-21 football team I get 5330 results.
 * You see the handball youth teams are in the same prominence as football. If you don't questions all youth national teams of all team sports I think this is again an attack of some User of the USA against handball because they don't know it better. So please stop AFD handball articles if you don't know the significant of the sport. I also don't put AFD's one various American football articles because I never heard of them. Malo95 (talk) 07:34, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Commment You might also want to consider East Germany national junior handball team as part of this bundle. Mccapra (talk) 07:44, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - Added one team as per User:Mccapra. Robert McClenon (talk) 09:10, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - We need an individual notability guideline for handball players. Robert McClenon (talk) 09:10, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - We should consider adopting a notability guideline for handball teams, and for teams in general, if we want to avoid deletion discussions of teams. Robert McClenon (talk) 09:10, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep/merge I expect that there's more coverage to be found in places such as "The Ocho" but if I dip into that I'm more more likely to start writing about sports that I understand, such as chess boxing, death diving or stone skipping. As notability is a guideline which counsels the use of common sense, let's try that instead.


 * Handball is clearly a respectable, organised sport and it appears to be quite popular in countries such as Croatia. Such sports are obviously divided into different classes such as women/junior and it would not be neutral to focus on only some of them, such as adult men.  The pages seem to have have constructed in a systematic, tabular fashion and that seems reasonably sensible.  What's missing is an umbrella article such as Croatian handball or Handball in Croatia which will provide some context and prose to explain the various tables.


 * The most applicable policy here seems to be WP:IMPERFECT which explains that "Perfection is not required: Wikipedia is a work in progress. Collaborative editing means that incomplete or poorly written first drafts can evolve over time into excellent articles. Even poor articles, if they can be improved, are welcome. For instance, one person may start an article with an overview of a subject or a few random facts." We still seem to be at the "few random facts" stage of development and so more time is needed.  Deletion is not appropriate per WP:ATD, "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page."


 * Andrew🐉(talk) 09:27, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment With little research I found in a few minutes many sources for the Croatian, Hungarian and Icelandic teams. I've add them to the articles. In the evening I'll add sources for the other teams. I found many sources so far. For me it looks like all junoir handball teams will pass GNG. Malo95 (talk) 09:33, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Strong keep I only looked at Iceland and found ample coverage of its various junior handball teams.. Were any attempts made to look for sources, per WP:BEFORE, before the articles were nominated for deletation? As all of the teams nominated are from non-english speaking countries, a search in news articles in their own language should be conducted to prevent WP:BIAS. Alvaldi (talk) 09:48, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Agree with Andrew and Alvaldi, and thanks for the search Malo95. Nom should have done WP:BEFORE. Remember, WP:GNG says WP:SIGCOV in WP:RS/WP:IS should exist. The coverage may or may not have been cited in the article itself. — Ad Meliora Talk∕Contribs 10:22, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Handball is an olympic game sport, That we should respect this fact. Thanks. 23:40, 9 November 2020 Talk
 * Keep of course I have create these articles as a simple entries ok, there is a lack of some sources I agree, for exm players, coaches ext.. I will add it by time, but remember these articles are new and need some patient for development hopefully to reach a positive consensus.


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. — Ad Meliora Talk∕Contribs 11:00, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment: This feels to me like it would be best served by closing this as no consensus (with no prejudice against re-nominating), and then having a discussion about the relative notability of men's handball / women's handball / men's junior handball / women's junior handball teams, from different countries. Having it in AfD makes participants feel like there's a ticking clock, which is not necessarily conducive to a nuanced discussion. — Toughpigs (talk) 20:37, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd support that. There should really be a clause in WP:NSPORT about it. Currently all it has is the thing about players of Gaelic games that are handballers. Which clearly isn't adequate. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:26, 9 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose mass nom: A team which has competed in the Youth Olympics and has won medals has much different notability concerns than a team that has never placed higher than 10th in their represpective competitions. No prejudice to re-nomming them individually. Jumpytoo Talk 01:37, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep (procedural), 14 articles nominated in one bundle is kind of stretching it, ie. say minimum of 90mins for editors to look for references, although some editors above have apparently easily found sources pretty quickly for some of the articles, pointing to a lack of WP:BEFORE? (as does noms statement - "The sources to these articles do not amount to .." - so, did they look for others?); a couple of points: there are around 27mill registered players around the world with most players in europe (see here) so some of their teams might warrant an article? most national sports teams appear to be wikinotable, these articles are, however, dealing with junior teams, in the main, junior teams even at the national level do not appear to be deemed wikinotable (see only around 1000(?) articles at junior national team category), but just may need more editors to expand the no.(?). anyway, that will do:). Coolabahapple (talk) 03:38, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep youth national teams are notable and as presented here, can be (easily) sourced better. Kante4 (talk) 10:00, 14 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.