Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Croatian Airplay Chart (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Croatian Radiotelevision. Whether to merge anything is up to editors.  Sandstein  06:24, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Croatian Airplay Chart
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This music chart was previously deleted in 2009 after an AfD, it was recreated in 2012 under the name Croatian Airplay Radio Chart, it was moved backed to this name in 2014 and a week ago I tagged it for WP:CSD since the article is only four sentences long, I figured it was substantially the same even though it has been four years since it was recreated. User:Nyttend disagreed since there have been eleven edits (not including bots) in the four years by nine different editors. I think this article still suffers from the problems from when it was first deleted after the Croatian WikiProject discussion and the AfD. Aspects (talk) 09:38, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Question How can it be substantially the same? The entire deleted content was Croatian Airplay Chart is the only chart in Croatia. It contains information from all radio stations in Croatia.  G4 is for reposts, not new articles on the same subject, and entirely new articles or entirely rewritten articles on the same subjects are not eligible.  Unless you have substantial evidence that it really is a repost of the same content, tagging for G4 is quite disruptive.  Nyttend (talk) 11:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as a WP:SINGLENETWORK violation, which means it violates WP:NOT. Articles describing the airplay choices made by a single entity aren't a "chart" in any meaningful way, they are simply a promotional tool of that entitity.&mdash;Kww(talk) 14:15, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Question for : the HRT's official website says: "Airplay Radio Chart measures the popularity and presence of artists and their songs in the programs of domestic radio stations." (Here, "domestic" = "Croatian".) So, since - according to this description - the ARC is created by compiling the airplay data from Croatian radio stations, it is indeed the national (or a national) chart, and WP:SINGLENETWORK does not apply? GregorB (talk) 15:06, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that it only collects data from HRT's domestic radio stations, making it a single network chart.&mdash;Kww(talk) 20:31, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Another sentence from the same page (Airplay Radio Chart je sastavljen na temelju zbroja top-lista stranih singlova s radijskih stanica širom Hrvatske.) translates as "The Airplay Radio Chart is compiled based on the sum of foreign singles' top lists from radio stations throughout Croatia". Here - as in sentence quoted earlier - these "radio stations" are not qualified, and I couldn't find more detailed info, so one cannot be certain either way. While a reliable chart should arguably provide at least a general inkling about its sourcing, I don't think delete votes should be based on assumptions. GregorB (talk) 22:03, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have a time machine, unfortunately. I remember the last time I researched this, HRT's site described it as domestic HRT stations. You are right that they are no longer explicit about what radio stations they include. Perhaps that's the result of expansion, perhaps it's the result of sloppy editing. I think the latter, but I agree that it's not 100% clear. The reason it isn't 100% clear is because HRT is vague and we have precisely zero independent sources about the chart. If you think my WP:SINGLENETWORK argument is too weak, WP:N certainly applies: zero independent sources means it hasn't been demonstrated to be notable.&mdash;Kww(talk) 01:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Merge into Croatian Radiotelevision or delete. As duly noted by Kww above, whether WP:SINGLENETWORK applies or not is perhaps of lesser importance; a much bigger problem is that it would be very hard to argue that the topic meets WP:GNG. Secondary sources are pretty much nil, and - as illustrated above - it is difficult to extract rather basic facts about the chart even using primary sources. GregorB (talk) 07:48, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - This might shed some light (Google Translate). Daß Wölf (talk) 23:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's a very good find. It appears to show that WP:SINGLENETWORK does not apply after all, but the question of general notability still remains. GregorB (talk) 21:57, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Sadly I can't help there. I tried to find some sources on Google, but the chart's generic-sounding English name really doesn't help there. Daß Wölf (talk) 00:05, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If Otvoreni radio contributes data to this chart, as well as regional players such as Radio 101 and Radio Dalmacija, then the single network argument is null and void. And since the remaining national-coverage radio stations - Narodni and HKR - probably don't play enough recent foreign music to be relevant for such a chart, it could be that this chart actually reflects national radio airplay. The few gaps in coverage may come from a couple of remaining relevant regional players such as Antena Zagreb or Laganini FM, but that's about it. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 09:41, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, st170e talk 01:23, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 00:18, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 00:18, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Croatia-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 00:18, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete as failing GNG. Google search for "ARC top 40" at .hr domain, apart from the chart's web page at Hrvatski Radio does not reveal any significant secondary coverage. About the only RS with a more or less passing mention is this article in Jutarnji List . There is also some coverage at Musika.hr, web portal I know little about, mentioned by Daß Wölf. (There is also much more notable domestic chart titled "HR Top 40", e.g., but it's not what the article is about). No such user (talk) 08:27, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * With respect to notability in Croatia, a domestic music chart can't really be more notable than a foreign music chart, because IIRC ZAMP (the Croatian agency that collects music royalties) redistributes something over 50% of its income to foreign such agencies and rights holders, based on the amount of airplay. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 09:44, 28 May 2016 (UTC)


 * This is a reasonably popular national radio show, and most Croatian radio listeners would just recognize it as the Goran Komerički / Monika Lelas chart show that regularly airs on Croatian Radio - it's changed names several times over the years. But just because it's the most popular such show in the country that doesn't necessarily mean there's any significant coverage potential there. Just merge those two sentences to Croatian Radio and be done with it. Not sure if this current title is worth keeping, since they obviously changed the name again since the article was created, but it doesn't hurt to keep this redirect and whatever other old titles as possible search terms. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 09:27, 28 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Merge with Croatian Radiotelevision as above. It seems the radio show based on the chart is better-placed to satisfy the GNG than the actual chart itself. ✤ Fosse   8 ✤  14:22, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete instead as there's nothing obvious to suggest this can have independent notability, delete at best for now and mention at the other article however needed. SwisterTwister   talk  21:26, 1 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.