Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Crosley Gracie


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Stifle (talk) 17:53, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Crosley Gracie

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Non-notable as martial artist or MMA fighter. His connection to the Gracie name does not infer notability. Peter Rehse (talk) 17:23, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 17:23, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:21, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:21, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:21, 20 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Simply being a Gracie does not make a person notable and he doesn't meet any notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 17:32, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:NMMA and lacks the independent sources to meet WP:GNG. Mdtemp (talk) 19:11, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * delete'he fought in a major mma organization which was Pride. He was also a pancrease champ.  I tend not like Gracie propoganda, but he is accomplished in his field. CrazyAces489 (talk) 00:30, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Meets MMA note as per Have fought at least three (3) professional fights for a top-tier MMA organization, such as the UFC (see WP:MMATIER); https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NMMA#Mixed_martial_arts and Pride is top tier CrazyAces489 (talk) 00:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I'm not seeing 3 top tier fights. Yes, PRIDE was top tier but not Pancrase.  Also, I don't see any evidence supporting your claim he was a Pancrase champion. Papaursa (talk) 03:19, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * the significance says 3 professional fights for a top tier mma organization OR Have fought for the highest title of a top-tier MMA organization. So he makes it, barely, but he makes it.  Pancrease is a second tier so that helps but is not a sole qualifier. .CrazyAces489 (talk) 05:04, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but the hour is late and I must not be thinking clearly. He has only 2 top tier fights and never fought for a top tier title, so how does he meet WP:NMMA?  Please tell me what I'm missing. Papaursa (talk) 06:17, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Not a problem. According to:

Mixed martial artists are presumed notable if they Have fought at least three (3) professional fights for a top-tier MMA organization, such as the UFC (see WP:MMATIER); or Have fought for the highest title of a top-tier MMA organization. Gosh while reading this, I saw you're correct. He has 2 top tier fights for an MMA organization. I thought I saw three fights. I guess I would still put keep since K-1 Kickboxing is considered to be a top kickboxing organization in the world. Wikipedia is giving credence to k-1 for kickboxing. . So 2 fights in a tier 1 organization and a k-1 event would work for me. CrazyAces489 (talk) 07:20, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * add, i did make a mistake. He wasn't a pancrease champ. You were right with Gracie.  I still think he is borderline notable.  The 2 fights and the k-1 fight work for me.  He did beat Kiuma in pancrease, while Kiuma was still holding one of the belts.  Apparently Kiuma was the welterweight and middleweight champ at the same time.  Kiuma lost the middleweight title a fight previous to fighting gracie, he later lost to gracie and in the next fight he defended his welterweight title.  Overall, I think Gracie is a notable, barely.   CrazyAces489 (talk) 07:33, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I found no evidence he ever kickboxed, certainly not enough to meet WP:KICK. Are you confusing his appearance at a Hero's MMA event (which was K-1's attempt to promote MMA) with a K-1 kickboxing event?  Are you also aware that, according to the weights given at Sherdog, Gracie had a 27 pound advantage over Kiuma Kunioku (180 vs. 153)?  That's why Gracie is listed as a light heavyweight and Kunioku as a welterweight--I'd say that makes his victory less impressive.  Add in the fact that the article has no significant independent coverage of Gracie and I'll stick with my delete since he doesn't appear to meet any notability criteria.  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Papaursa (talk) 17:25, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the explanation. I was going by this .  I saw k-1 and wasn't aware of hero's significance.  That with the weight advantage in pancrease makes a difference as well.  My keep can be changed to a veary weak keep. CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:05, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.