Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Crossing Rubicon


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Redirect to Jeanne Sagan. There is a clear consensus that this content should not be a separate article. But there is not a clear consensus that a redirect is harmful so I am creating one on the basis that "redirects are cheap". The history is intact to enable a selective merge but there is no consensus for that below and if ity is desired it should be discussed on the relevant talk pages. Eluchil404 (talk) 09:03, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Crossing Rubicon

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The article, created by a SPA, completely fails to meet WP:BAND requirements. The sources in the article are mostly promotional items, not serious coverage. And Adoil Descended (talk) 12:38, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 *  Keep, merge or redirect - Jeanne Sagan is a notable musician who was part of the band. Therefore, this article should either be kept, merged or redirected to Sagan. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:18, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  Jupitus Smart  14:31, 17 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Per nominator. The article is not about Ms. Sagan, who barely meets WP:BIO standards, and her belated involvement is strictly in a supportive level as a back-up vocalist and bassist. Wefihe (talk) 16:56, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 *  Reply -, if the article for Jeanne Sagan gets deleted, then that is a different story. However, that is the very best target that we have at this time, similar to the manner in which Lody Kong redirected to Zyon Cavalera.  According to Crossing Rubicon and her own article, Sagan is as permanent as permanent is.  Also, would you be so kind to comment at Articles for deletion/Hopeless Fountain Kingdom World Tour? --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:53, 17 May 2017 (UTC)


 * If you are implying that the involvement of Jeanne Sagan is minor, and therefore diminishes the relevance of the article, I would beg to differ. Jeanne Sagan is married to the singer of the band and is writing the music along with the other members of the band. To suggest that she is simply a bassist and backup singer quite trivializes her role in the band and is not quite accurate. Dan Hello Kitty McCarthy (talk) 19:47, 17 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep or merge: "Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)." Crossing Rubicon released their album with Pavement music which has done business since 1997 and has history with bands such as Soil and Crowbar, both of which are large bands which have pages here on Wikipedia. "Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability." Members of the band also run a promotional company which helps Connecticut bands get shows (Anarchy Promotions), and also partake in podcasts about the Connecticut metal scene featuring front-men of 4 different Connecticut bands (The League of Extraordinary Front-Men). This is in addition to the band featuring Jeanne Sagan, who was in All That Remains and temporarily toured with Acacia Strain. While I agree that it is not the most ideal candidate, I don't believe it is merit-less or without value to the Wiki. Dan Hello Kitty McCarthy (talk) 17:04, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You do realize that you just confirmed that this group does not meet WP:BAND requirements? And Adoil Descended (talk) 00:50, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
 * This doesn't help me understand the Wiki any better and just feels as though you are rubbing it in my face when I'm just trying to keep a page I spent my time building. I tried to give some reasons in addition to what is already on the Wiki page. I don't understand the problem any better from your question. Your response feels more condescending than educational, I'm still learning. Dan Hello Kitty McCarthy (talk) 18:31, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I apologize for the delay in responding. I would recommend reading WP:BAND (just click the link) to see what is required for a musical group to be considered notable by Wikipedia's standards. As one of the participants in this discussion noted, there are 12 different aspects where a band could be judged notable for inclusion on this website. Unfortunately, this group does not meet any of them. I can understand your frustration over the possibility of seeing this article erased, but at the same time its continued presence goes against what is spelled out in WP:BAND. And Adoil Descended (talk) 14:14, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Connecticut-related deletion discussions.   CAPTAIN RAJU  (✉)   18:15, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.   CAPTAIN RAJU  (✉)   18:15, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:43, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete This article fails all 12 of the critieria in the WP:BAND rules. I have no objections redirecting this to the Jeanne Sagan article, but there is no reason for this obscure group to have its own encyclopedia article. Capt. Milokan (talk) 20:41, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete As per the nominator. They're not a notable band. 95.215.44.97 (talk) 19:43, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.