Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cultural Judaism (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. The three Wikipedia editors who advocated the retention of this article offered clear and concise explanations on why this article should not be deleted. And while the deletion request is sincere, it nonetheless fails to explain how this article strays from the basic WP:GNG requirements. I would welcome the nominating editor to become more familiar with this website's rules before rushing into an AfD. A non-admin closure. And Adoil Descended (talk) 02:26, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Cultural Judaism
AfDs for this article: 
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There is no singular Jewish culture or ethnicity to claim as a Jewish Culture. This is why I have submitted this article for deletion. It gives people who wish to confuse others as to Jewish identity, a sense of legitimacy to claim it since Wikipedia has an "entry" for the term. There is little support to claim this is a stream of Judaism since Judaism is a religion. Jewish identity is not dependent upon adherence to religion but to the criteria of membership of Jewish law.

If you don't have a religion, you don't have Judaism. You can have Jewish cultures (note: plurality )or Jewish languages or customs, but not Judaism without a religion. Cultural Jewish identity can be a reality, but Cultural Judaism implies a religious stream or movement. This article entry is extremely misleading and poorly referenced. Secular Jews often identify with the culture of their community, but they first had to qualify to be a Jew according to Jewish law or they are not Jews no matter if they speak Yiddish like former Secretary of State Colin Powell who grew up in a Jewish neighborhood, living and working for and with many Jews. I am very new to Wikipedia so I may have made mistakes in how I've done this, but I am not new to Jewish studies, both religious and secular. I see from a link on the deletion request that it was proposed for deletion and the consensus achieved was for deletion as far back as 2006. So, I fail to understand why it is still here, especially since the references given do not support that this is anything worthy of claiming a movement or stream of Judaism. Could I open a blog page titled Center for insert whatever you want to call it Judaism and have only one member and qualify for claiming a *stream* of Judaism? The Link to the Center for Cultural Judaism there states "Over thirty institutions in North America and Europe are associated with the Posen Project for the study of secular Jewish history and cultures." Note the use of the phrase Jewish cultures, the plurality. The studies of these cultures do not designate a stream of Judaism called Cultural Judaism. This entry needs to be deleted as it is being misused to claim there is a movement of Judaism accepted by Jews that permits anyone to be a Jew by simply claiming affinity to "the Jewish culture". I discovered this entry from a Christian missionary claiming to be a Cultural Jew and assuring his audience that it was an accepted movement within Judaism because of the studies at the Center for Cultural Judaism and the Wikipedia entry.I am familiar with the study of Jewish cultures and languages and I study them. I am not in Cultural Judaism. If I were secular and studied Jewish history and languages I would be a secular Jew. Chana Maven (talk) 21:49, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixing a malformed deletion nomination on behalf of User:Chana Maven. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 13:13, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:54, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep - Whether or not it is recognized in some (particularly more religious) circles, the fact of the matter is that it's very clear in many places of the world that many people who, while no longer practicing Judaism, still self-identify as "nonobservant" or "cultural Jews". That is to say, independent of the religion, they still have a strong connection with the culture of Judaism, that perhaps is the result of the social and genetic isolation from other groups  throughout the many years of the diaspora. See, for example, another similar social phenomenon at Cultural Catholic.  If anything, it seems a merge of Jewish atheism into it might be considered.  AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 03:02, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep (first time I have made that kind of vote I believe for the following reasons:) Not a strong enough argument to delete. The nomination reads like a "thesis" and does cite needed WP:POLICY and guidelines, that if anything, would validate the topic. If anything a more logical request would have been a request for a "Merge and Redirect" to the article about the Center for Cultural Judaism that seems to have the most prominent links about Cultural Judaism direct to it on Google, such as this Cultural Judaism Opens the Door for Alienated Jews written by a member of "The Center for Cultural Judaism in Manhattan" or this ad for it as well Center for Cultural Judaism from Hillel or this report Center for Cultural Judaism Awards Grants to Six Universities for the Study of Secular Judaism or even this critique in a Jewish newspaper: Center for Cultural Judaism is detrimental to Judaism’s future. But there are some articles on Google that connect the topic of Cultural Judaism with other phenomena in Jewish life or the world that involves Judaism in its broadest scope. So for now, it would be advisable to Keep the article and improve it because there are plenty of WP:RS that meet WP:V and WP:NOTABLE that can be found and accessed via Google that can and should be incorporated into the article. IZAK (talk) 09:21, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep per the Squirrel. We have lots of articles that offend somebody; see WP:NOTCENSORED. This article's subject is well documented. Bearian (talk) 17:16, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.