Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cummins Memorial Theological Seminary


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   partial merge and redirect to Reformed Episcopal Church. Most of the people who !voted keep or delete left merge as an acceptable alternative, but the last two argued for only a redirect due to a lack of reliable sources. Any salvageable, verifiable content should be merged, and then the article should be redirected. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 00:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Cummins Memorial Theological Seminary

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Non-notable educational institution. Article was previously merged into Reformed Episcopal Church after a merge process in January 2009, but a user has re-created it. Chonak (talk) 20:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  -- — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  20:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Carolina-related deletion discussions.  -- — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  20:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  -- — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  20:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Same as with the two other discussions: not notable, no valid third-party references. Merge if possible, otherwise delete. The Earwig (User 20:16, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Did a google, google news, google books, and google scholar search on the subject, and found maybe one independent RS. Doesn't yet seem to meet notability guidelines. Mergeing back into parent article would also be acceptable. John Carter (talk) 20:16, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge and Delete: Merge contents with Reformed Episcopal Church and leave Cummins Memorial Theological Seminary as a redirect. Tb (talk) 20:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep Reliable sources cover the place as "Cummins Theological Seminary" in Google News. The fact that it's not regionally accredited is troubling, and I was unable to substantiate it's SC-specific accreditation status via their website, but it certainly meets WP:V. Merging it wouldn't be a terrible outcome. Jclemens (talk) 20:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. While WP:SCHOOLS did fail, the fact remains that tertiary degree-granting institutions are still generally considered notable.  I'm finding plenty of independent coverage.  It's not necessarily of the highest and most in-depth quality, but it's there   (registration required for those, but you should have access through your library).  There seems to be coverage on a lot of websites about universities as well (just page through google and you'll see plenty).  I may be accused of WP:OTHERSTUFF for this, but this institution is at least as notable as your average high school, and those are consistently kept at AfD.  Cool3 (talk) 22:03, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It may be relevant to note that the school appears to not be in operation at present: its Master's degree program is "being restructured", and students are referred to other institutions. Chonak (talk) 22:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment -- I would have thought that a college offering degree level courses was notable in its own right, not merely as part of its denomination. I would say Keep, but for the last comment.  Peterkingiron (talk) 23:54, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Request for those who vote keep: Can you indicate whether you would object to a merge to Reformed Episcopal Church in the absence of a fuller article? Tb (talk) 00:06, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand and further source, even though a nice stub is aceptable... for several reasons:
 * It strikes me as odd that Wiki has a precedent to usually accept articles about high schools, yet here we are debating notability of a Seminary. Higher education would tend to indicate greater notability.
 * Doing a news search I found 3 articles from 1955, that herald a black Methodist minister from the seminary being installed as pastor in an all-white church. That alone raised my eyebrows, as common-place as it would be today, it was nearly unheard of in 1955.
 * The seminary seems well-covered in Google Books.
 * And even with only 219 G-Hits and the few at Google News, the quality of the sources available for expansion and sourcing seem reasonably sound.
 *  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 03:28, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep normally, it would be a keep, but there are some problems: the Seminary at present has no actual existence, but is only operating as an unaccredited correspondence school, Cummins Memorial Theological Seminary External Studies Division, and does not presently offer degrees. Some more actual sourced information about the history would help. DGG (talk)
 * Interesting bit of history. In History of the Presbyterian Church in South Carolina it tells that the idea for a Theological Seminary in South Carolina was first conceived in 1817. Cummings and 2 others formed a committee to draft the plan for a seminary and reported their findings in 1819.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 07:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Unaccredited theological schools like this are ten a penny. Stifle (talk) 11:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems that Cummins Memorial Theological Seminary is approved by the Commission of Higher Education in the State of South Carolina, and the Commission of Theological Education of the Reformed Episcopal Church. Likely not enough though.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 19:53, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The state accreditation is not confirmed by available info. See the article's talk page for a link to the state's current list of institutions. Chonak (talk) 19:57, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete no reliable sources that might establish notability or otherwise assist in verification of this articles claims. Absent reliable sources that allow for verification, articles should be deleted.Bali ultimate (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. No sources to indicate notability. Doctorfluffy (robe and wizard hat) 18:09, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Reformed Episcopal Church. The closest things to independent coverage that I have seen are primarily about the denomination, not about the school. Thus, it seems to have significance in connection with the denomination, and anyone looking for it would be able to find it via a redirect. As for the accreditation issue, educational accreditation by itself does not make an educational institution notable and lack of accreditation does not in itself make an institution non-notable, but there is no evidence that Cummins has educational accreditation. Not only is the state approval cited on their website not confirmed by the state (as Chomak pointed out), but it's not equivalent to accreditation. In the U.S., state approval of post-secondary educational institutions is essentially a license to operate an education business. New York is the only U.S. state that accredits higher education institutions. The other two approvals listed on the Cummins website appear at most to be theological approval, which is not educational accreditation. --Orlady (talk) 18:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Redirects are free. Otherwsie, stick me in the delete camp, or the delete and then after that deletion has happened, feel free to create a redirect camp. I've had trouble with people not understanding "delete then redirect" lately. There's not a lot of reliable sourcing on which to base the article. Hiding T 13:54, 21 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.