Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cyber Monday (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Speedy keep. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC) AfDs for this article: 

Cyber Monday

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Mainly a page on Criticism and very little about the subject in hand. The page is very unbalanced and is a POV trap.  Sawblade05  (talk to me undefined my wiki life) 09:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep: Term in common use in reliable sources; see a whole bunch from Google News. Article may not be great, but AfD is not the article improvement drive --Pak21 (talk) 09:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Black Friday. Sufficiently notable, but not really enough to stand alone, and likely never will be. bd2412  T 09:21, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - Although both are somewhat manufactured, at least Black Friday has some root in legitimate sales statistics. Torc2 (talk) 10:03, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - typo? Your comment seems to contradict a keep? -Tejastheory (talk) 15:21, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep: I've been trying to keep the page factual and not spending much time on the POV. Can spend some time fixing this.  Responding to BD2412:  Cyber Monday is actually one of the top search terms on Google this week, so not having an article on it is not really in the spirit of Wikipedia.  Responding to Torc2:  Neither Black Friday nor Cyber Monday are based on "legitimate sales statistics".  Both are marketing events, and Cyber Monday is just as important a marketing event to online companies as Black Friday is to traditional retailers.  My vote is to clean up the article and keep it.  Dlandre  —Preceding comment was added at 14:57, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment True, Black Friday is like Cyber Monday: marketing term without tangible sales statistics to back it up. Where Black Friday and Cyber Monday differ is in the cultural effect - "Black Friday sales" are a real cultural phenomenon that have droves of people camping out at stores the entire night.  Even if there were no Black Friday marketing term, that cultural phenomenon alone merits an article.  The same can't be said for Cyber Monday - there is no cultural impact, so there is nothing notable except for its use as a marketing term.  See below for reasons why I don't think a marketing term deserves an article in and of itself. Tejastheory (talk) 15:21, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge - The whole idea of a "Cyber Monday" is just built on top of a "Black Friday". Most media references seem to refer to it as the "Black Friday for online retailers".  As it seems fairly obvious that this is not any sort of real phenomenon (see: lack of sales numbers that point to particularly high sales the Monday after Thanksgiving), the only notability of "Cyber Monday" is purely as a marketing term and perhaps mentioned in either fluff news articles or articles disproving the premise of Cyber Monday (disproving that it is a big day for online retailers). So we should ask: is a marketing campaign all that notable?  Even culturally significant ads like say Nike's "Just Do It" don't have their own pages.  I have not bothered to look very much, but I highly doubt there is any stand-alone article about an ad campaign (happy to be corrected, however), and even if there were, I am sure the notability of that campaign would far exceed that of "Cyber Monday".  Sorry this is getting a bit long-winded.  My basic thoughts boil down to:
 * This is simply a marketing campaign. I don't know of any standalone articles dedicated to marketing campaigns, and even if that were the case they would have to have some significance beyond "this is the campaign of XY company".  The campaign should have some actual cultural or economic impact to be notable, and Cyber Monday doesn't.
 * Information here can be easily included into Black Friday. As of now, there isn't more than a few sentences worth of content describing this.  Since the term "Cyber Monday" has its roots based on "Black Friday", this is perfectly appropriate.  It should also be noted that almost all the news articles mentioning Cyber Monday invariably refer to it as the "Black Friday for online retailers".  See first couple of google news hits:
 * http://www.mlive.com/business/grpress/index.ssf?/base/business-5/1195888617112150.xml&coll=6
 * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/11/24/ccwall124.xml
 * By the way, anyone know how to do unordered lists in wiki syntax? Tejastheory (talk) 15:21, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep: The article just recently had the POV section added. The first paragraph of that section could be eliminted or cleaned up to make the article more NPOV.  ++Arx Fortis (talk) 15:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment As another note, virtually all of the relevant information is already included in the Black Friday article: The term Cyber Monday, a neologism invented by the National Retail Federation's Shop.org division, refers to the Monday immediately following Black Friday, which unofficially marks the beginning of the Christmas online shopping season. In recent years, Cyber Monday has become a busy day for online retailers, with some sites offering low prices and other promotions on that day. Like Black Friday, Cyber Monday is often wrongly said to be the busiest shopping day of the year for online shoppers, although in reality several days later in the holiday shopping season are busier. Earlier in the 2000s the day had more significance (though it was not named as such until 2005) as most people did not have broadband connections at home and presumably used the first day back at work from the long Thanksgiving weekend to take advantage of such connections in the office to do online shopping. In response, many retailers now encourage people to do their online shopping at home on Thanksgiving Day itself by offering their Black Friday sales online that day. Is there any new information that this article adds that isn't covered by that short blurb? Tejastheory (talk) 16:28, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - Business Week article establishes notability as nontrivial coverage in a reliable source. Afd is not cleanup. Skomorokh  incite 17:06, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge with Black Friday. 'Cyber Monday' is a notable term, which verifiably exists; but it's so closely linked to Black Friday that the two would be better covered in the same article. This article doesn't contain much information that isn't in the Black Friday article already, and it's unlikely that it ever will. Terraxos (talk) 18:48, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge or Keep. I hear this term all the time, so its notability isn't in question.  However, if the article needs work and it's not getting done, it should be merged to Black Friday where it can get the copyediting it needs. Squidfryerchef (talk) 22:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Keep - This is helpful - I wanted to be sure I knew which day it was, and now I do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.63.18 (talk) 02:04, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep The present version of the article has sufficient sourcing to show the notability, and that is the WP criterion. DGG (talk) 08:25, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Seems to be the equivalent of Black Friday, and is being talked about in the news. Jmlk  1  7  10:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment There is a lot of talk on the news, but most of it seems to be of the "well you know about retail sales on black friday, now the online retailers are gearing up for big sales on cyber monday!" fluff articles or segments - that is, the term "Cyber Monday" is rarely mentioned independent of the term "Black Friday". Also as I discussed above, Cyber Monday lacks any of the cultural significance that Black Friday does.Tejastheory (talk) 10:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep as separate article. It's a relatively new term but legitimate per CNN. -Nv8200p talk 13:35, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - very notable term and topic. The news sites are all over this and there is no expectation of it disappearing soon. -- Kickstart70 - T - C 17:59, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going to close this as a WP:SNOW. No one except the nominator has suggested deleting the article; the "merge" opinions are essentially "keep". (Any discussion about merge versus a separate article should be done on the article talk pages in question, not at AfD.) Also, I've just added a couple more citations to the article (and that's from just the first page of Google results), of articles SOLELY about the term, from news sites; that should put to rest any questions that this is a notable term, PR spin or not. The article stills needs so more cleanup, but the deletion template needs to go. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:40, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.