Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/D. S. Bradford (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Barkeep49 (talk) 01:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

D. S. Bradford
AfDs for this article: 
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Article was recreated after last deletion in 2019. Though this iteration has more sources, I still don't see any that clearly meet reliable sources for indie/altenative music (as a fan of this genre of music, I'm aware of the most prominent sources for it) other than the AllMusic entry. The rest seem to be coming from obscure blogs and sites that solicit press releases; examples include, ,. Though the creator denies a WP:COI here, nearly all of their contributions have been centered on Bradford, including a film he made (deleted via Afd here), and a company he was a part of (speedied here). There's also this which I'm not sure what to make of. OhNo itsJamie Talk 23:29, 29 June 2020 (UTC) (
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Lightburst (talk) 23:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. Lightburst (talk) 23:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nomination and the previous one. Vast majority of sources are primary/unreliable, combined with COI concerns, deletion seems to be the best option. WhinyTheYounger (talk) 15:00, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete does not meet the inclusion criteria for musicians.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:02, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep The article remained for five years with no contest. There are other articles about artists (example: Paul The Trombonist) that have been created in similar fashion as the subject of this article, with legitimate sources and a user who created the article for that person and not much else. Instead of deletion, move it to draft and continue improving. The person is legitimate, as are the sources. In looking into things further, even though some sources pulled information from a bio, there are completely strong and independent publications with good information that is verifiable. The entry has withstood For five years without an issue. Let it be moved to draft and continued to be worked on, perhaps with more contributors, and let us reach an agreement (in a nicer way than what has been happening). THBAO (talk) 21:18, 30 June 2020 (UTC) — THBAO (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment So on on hand, you're saying we should keep this article because other stuff exists, such as Paul The Trombonist, then you go on to nominate Paul the Trombonest for deletion? Well, OK. OhNo itsJamie Talk 21:48, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Only calling attention to it (and it was done prior to my comment here, so to be correct here: I called attention to it, then came here to discuss and my considerations unfolded afterwards), as this one was also placed into the same category, in your opinion. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will get deleted, just that it might be worth taking a look at, and since there are similarities, maybe both should be improved and revisited. It would be fair, would it not? We're all here trying to add value, not take it away. There is, and never has been, anything done here to warrant the aggressive response or a reason to not be nice. It seems like we should take some consideration and pump the brakes, so to speak. Constructive vs. Destructive. Thanks. THBAO (talk) 22:03, 30 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - THBAO asked me to take a look at this as a fresh set of eyes as I’d deprodded Paul The Trombonist. Those of you who have seen my AFDs will know I’m not an inclusionist by default, but there is a case here. The sources by PopMatters, Niji magazine and the staff-authored bio from AllMusic are all appropriate sources for this article. There are a lot of poor quality sources which I would like to see taken out, but this does not mean the subject isn’t notable. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:06, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * *Delete I disagree with what you cited as being evidence of notable source coverage. PopMatters and Niji are basic new release announcements/video posts with obligatory editorial culled from promotional hype verbiage. As of 2020 such stuff is run-of-the-mill. AllMusic is--as ever--problematic on a case by case basis. If ever there is evidence of why staff bylines at AllMusic are not necessarily the indicator of editorial oversight, please note that this one  is simply a verbatim cut and paste of his bio from his own website. As others have stated, there is no significant coverage for this subject, merely verification of his existence. ShelbyMarion (talk) 22:06, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete. Preferably speedy as a purely promotional repost. Differences between this an the deleted version are superficial. If not speedy the regular deletion as non notable, as at last afd. Wikipedia is not here for promotion. Coverage is lacking. Maybe good, popmatters and a very short allmusic . That's it and that's not enough. The Niji source mentioned above is clearly not an independent reliable source. Pure pr. Aside from being obviously so from reading it it contains the same crufty wording as found elsewhere. Google the wanky pr "great fortune of consulting with award-winning artist development coach" And you get Apple Music and YouTube bios. duffbeerforme (talk) 23:42, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:59, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete having reflected on this I’ve struck my vote above. The AllMusic biog is particularly concerning as this is an argument that I see time and again at AFD as a barometer of notability. Is there anyway of adding this intel to the list of WP:RS? Cardiffbear88 (talk) 07:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Upon adding further improvements and continued searches for archival footage from news orgs, I propose having this article moved back into draft form. The article has been cleaned up considerably, dead links recovered, and new sources added (Muck Rack and The Next Web to support journalism fork in career section). More sources will continue to be added. AllMusic is a legitimate source with independent writers and editorial processes. With regards to the claim that the bio as written on AllMusic was taken verbatim from the subject's website, I disagree based on date-stamps found on Internet Archive. November 5, 2016 was the first occurrence of the AllMusic bio found here. It wasn't until January 17, 2017 that the bio appeared on the subject's website and was attributed to AllMusic here. There just appears to be a mixup in judging of the reliability based upon that and this clears up the chronological error. Again, let us consider that there is a case here and that this article can continue to be improved upon, whether in it's current state or in draft. Thank you THBAO (talk) 16:02, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note to closing admin THBAO has already had it moved it into draft after the first AfD, and resurrected it a few months later barely changed, and again here to try to avoid this second AfD. There's been more than enough time to improve this article after the first AfD. OhNo itsJamie Talk 17:05, 13 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.