Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dalessandro's Steaks


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep, though the article could stand substantial improvement. bd2412 T 04:27, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Dalessandro's Steaks

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

oclsignificance only, no notability outside the region--the only reference from outside is discussing only that city.  DGG ( talk ) 22:29, 27 November 2017 (UTC)  DGG ( talk ) 22:29, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. North America1000 23:14, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. North America1000 23:14, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. North America1000 23:14, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment – Below are some WP:AUD sources that reach beyond local coverage. North America1000 23:19, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * – 3 ¶
 * – 3 ¶

The source's audience must also be considered. Evidence of significant coverage by international or national, or at least regional, media is a strong indication of notability. On the other hand, attention solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not an indication of notability; at least one regional, statewide, provincial, national, or international source is necessary.
 * Keep The is a cultural establishment in Philadelphia similar to John's of Bleecker Street in NYC. This establishment has received critical acclaim and national attention as per the sources listed by . The New York metropolitan area is known for pizza, cheesesteaks, and hoagies, restaurants which receive critical acclaim on a national level are not run of the mill as per WP:AUD:


 * WP:AUD appears to allow significant coverage from regional reliable sources. Cheesesteaks do have significant cultural significance in the area. Valoem   talk   contrib  01:42, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment I would suggest we also delete John's of Bleecker Street; if, as the article says, it is the 10th highest rated pizzeria in the US, we would probably be able to jutify articles for the highest, or even the first three, as with other competitions. We don't remedy over-coverage by increasing it.  DGG ( talk ) 19:08, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * As a person from New York region, John's of Bleecker Street, Di Fara Pizza, Peter Luger Steak House, Katz's Delicatessen, are old guards of New York City cuisine, even if they fade from grace they are apart of cultural history. Other places which are newer I believe require extremely high rating such as gracing the top. Cuisine is significant to culture, not every region will receive as much coverage as NYC, but I am seeing the same type of regional sources describing these locations as significant to the Delaware Valley region. Valoem   talk   contrib  20:03, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Lugar and Katz's are I think nationally famous., and significant to American culture generally & have I think been covered internationally. . These are reasons for having encyclopedia articles. DeMarco has been claimed as the best of its type in the city, but not the country; If this is a consistent rating it might be worth an article, though not the current promotional pseudo-article. . I see no justification for John's and Di Fara.   This restaurant is not even sourced as the best in the city. The GNG is completely worthless for restaurants except a a minimum standard, because of the typically very wide extent of local coverage.  DGG ( talk ) 21:47, 29 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete passing references in local publications are just not enough to show notability for restaurants. Too much fluff and promotion to justify an article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:42, 30 November 2017 (UTC)


 * These source were listed for you are neither local nor trivial coverage. Also what puff do you see? Valoem   talk   contrib  02:59, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed, sources that cover the topic are not limited to "passing references in local publications". Were the above sources and regional coverage this company has received even considered? North America1000 04:09, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep – Per a review of available sources, meets WP:GNG (although on a bit of a weaker level) and WP:AUD. Per research, this company is also covered in The Great Philly Cheesesteak Book, which is published by Running Press, an American publishing company and member of the Perseus Books Group. Furthermore, the article does not have a promotional tone, and would benefit from expansion. North America1000 04:46, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep this article needs work to make it less of an advertisement ("The meat is the real prize" ???) but that doesn't mean it isn't a notable place. Lots of coverage in different sources and even some writeups in books (do a google books search) that go into some detail and profile places all over the USA. I would improve it by taking out the advertising-like copy though. Srt8 Outta Philly (talk) 22:20, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOT policy Wikipedia is not the place to recreate content more suited to entries in hotel or culinary guides, travelogues, and the like. and that the source provided is labeled as a guidebook violates this exact policy. WP:NOT supersedes GNG and GNG itself says must not be excluded under WP:What Wikipedia is not. Policy matters on our principles, not special interest subjects. SwisterTwister   talk  19:50, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment, the full guideline says "Wikipedia is not the place to recreate content more suited to entries in hotel or culinary guides, travelogues, and the like. Notable locations may meet the inclusion criteria, but the resulting articles need not include every tourist attraction, restaurant, hotel or venue, etc. While travel guides for a city will often mention distant attractions, a Wikipedia article for a city should only list those that are actually in the city." - This restaurant is of cultural significance to the region which is why multiple national and regional news sources have covered it. Valoem talk contrib 20:38, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The key word there is may, not is. After all, the other applying policy next to that is WP:Not catalog: '''
 * Directories, directory entries, electronic program guide, or a resource for conducting business. That we should host a list of "culturally significant places" cannot be outweighed by our own policy process of enforcing policy. Also, the comment under mine actually counters the amount of significant coverage in that it's about the food, not the restaurant". We certainly cannot accept information only on the food or those details since it would violate said WP:Not catalog as mentioned earlier in my comment.  SwisterTwister   talk  20:43, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * All Wikipedia guidelines used the term may, so your argument can apply to even the most notable subjects. Valoem talk contrib 20:47, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Valoem here, "This restaurant is of cultural significance to the region which is why multiple national and regional news sources have covered it," and that partially copy/pasted rationales from policy pages taken out of context without providing full context "... can apply to even the most notable subjects." Makes perfect sense. North America1000 04:07, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Weak keep - I'm not voting full keep because there's limited indepth coverage here, as others have pointed out. Most of the media coverage is about the food, but not the restaurant, the subject of the article. (maybe that needs to change?) Nonetheless, the Tonight Show, NY Times and US World & News Report references I just added, compounded with the notoriety that cheesesteaks have as a mainstay of Philadelphia's culture, meet a bare minimum notability threshold for me. I'd like to see more restaurant coverage added down the road - and hope we don't have to wait until it closes to get it. <b style="color:#7F007F">TimTempleton</b> <sup style="color:#800080">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  20:29, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Until the restaurant closes, not this AfD nomination. ;-) <b style="color:#7F007F">TimTempleton</b> <sup style="color:#800080">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  22:36, 4 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep Well-known Philly restaurant. Sources are sufficient for keep. gidonb (talk) 00:12, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.