Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Damien Teo


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 21:37, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Damien Teo

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A child actor who has acted in various drama series in Singapore. However, he is not as notable as other established actors/artistes in Singapore and should not be warranted an article. Winning awards in a local award show should not define the actors' notability in the Singaporean entertainment scene.

I have previously nominated Damien Teo for deletion on the deletion page of another child actress, Regene Lim. For the page Damien Teo, the deletion was contested by an unknown user, stating the page should not be deleted as Teo "is also a wushu representative for Singapore". I did some research and yes, Teo did represented Singapore in the 4th World Junior Wushu Championships in 2012. He came in 6th in the C division of Men's Daoshu, and joint 14th in Men's Changquan (source).

Despite this, I still personally feel an article is not necessary for Teo. First of all, the competition in question is not even notable or recognised worldwide, and Teo's participation in the competition was not covered by the local media (note that this is a NATIONAL REPRESENTATION but no media coverage). Secondly, he did not win any medals as he failed to be placed in the top 3. Hence, he is merely a participant in an international competition which has no notability. Does that mean an article should be created for him? If this is the case, an article should be created for the rest of the participants of the competition then (which is crazy as all of them like him, does not have any notability in Singapore).

I am also nominating the following related pages because all of the following are also pages about Singaporean child actors who do not have much notability in Singapore. It seems like someone has been trying to mass create Wikipedia articles for Singaporean child actors. I have came to notice about this as I am a regular editor of the page Star Awards for Young Talent. Many child actors' names have been linked to a standalone article of themselves. I have read through the articles and found them really unnecessary as most of them do not have any notability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DerricktanJCW (talk • contribs) 03:09, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

The following are the articles that are in question:
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
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 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   &#9742;   &#9998;  03:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:05, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Tentative keep for Teo, no comment on the other actors - I don't know much about Singaporean entertainment (Anime Festival Asia notwithstanding), but it seems that he won not one but two awards, in differing years as well (2015 and 2016). I'm not sure how notable this "Star Awards" award is in Singapore, but if it's a prestigious award and a local version of an Academy Award, I would say maybe at the very least Teo is notable. However, if anyone more versed in Singaporean media says the award is not that prestigious, consider my !vote as a delete. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:16, 4 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The Star Awards is a major award show in the Chinese entertainment scene in Singapore, hosted annually by the only terrestrial TV broadcaster Mediacorp. The awards are mostly given out to artistes who are contracted to Mediacorp, except for the Young Talent award – which are given out to child actors who are not contracted to Mediacorp and are engaged on a project-to-project basis.


 * The Young Talent award is probably one of the least prestigious or importance award that is given out at the Star Awards as the child actors that were nominated are mostly bit players in their respective nominated work. In fact, in the most recent Star Awards, the award was given out at the prelude show instead of the main show. This shows that the organisers of the award show has stopped placing emphasis on this award which is considered less prestigious in the local entertainment scene. Winning more than one of the Young Talent award certainly does not establish the child actor's notability in the Singaporean entertainment scene.


 * I would like to reiterate that most of the child actors in Singapore do not have much notability in the Singaporean entertainment scene, especially those that has appeared in productions by Mediacorp. The child actors, though nominated for an award in a local award ceremony (which I have explained above to be of less importance as compared to the others), are bit players in their nominated work and do not have much notability. Therefore, based on the nature of the award in question and also the status of child actors in Singapore, I strongly advise remove Damien Teo's article as he has been proven to be of no notability in the local entertainment scene. DerricktanJCW (talk) 10:00, 4 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The wushu championship is a world championship. Young wushu sportsmen from all over the world competed in it. A sixth placing is not notable? The local press only give coverage when one win an Olympic gold medal.


 * How is his participation and placing in the championship even considered as notable when it is not even covered by the press? If it's not even covered by the press, it means that the general public knows nothing about it or even be interested about it. I am quite positive that majority of the Singaporean knows nothing about his participation, or even the championship in question because it is so niche that probably not every country in the world even participated in it. In local context, as a participant of the competition, he is definitely not notable. And a sixth placing is considered as notable? Are you serious? DerricktanJCW (talk) 04:51, 5 June 2017 (UTC)


 * "The problem lies with the local press. There are only a few pages of sports news and 80% of it are dedicated to foreign sports. And it is not true that the press did not profile on Damien Teo. Check here: http://www.zaobao.com.sg/culture/entertainment/stars/story20150610-489959 . The local populace certainly know more about him as the local Chinese tv dramas have the highest tv viewership in Singapore, more than 10 times the top American tv series."


 * If his participation is not being covered by the press, it means it is not covered! If his participation is even a little newsworthy and worth mentioning, do you think the editors would let it go just because there isn't enough space for local sports news? If a LOCAL newspaper would rather cover FOREIGN sports news rather than a local sportsman participating a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, then please, just accept it that his participation, the outcome of his participation, and the championships themselves ARE NOT NOTABLE locally. With regards to the article on Lianhe Zaobao, the article does not just feature him but another two child actors as well. In fact, the article is mainly about the life of a child actor in Singapore and they just merely interviewed Damien Teo and the other two child actors to support whatever they have written in the article, because they are child actors themselves and they know best about the life of a child actor in Singapore. The article certainly does not establish the fact that he is a notable artiste in the local entertainment scene.
 * Side note: Nobody uses TELEVISION viewership to determine the popularity of local shows now because lesser and lesser people are watching tv. Even if they do, they will do it online. And it is perfectly normal for local shows for to have a higher tv viewership because majority of the shows on broadcast are local????!DerricktanJCW (talk) 07:41, 7 June 2017 (UTC)


 * As mentioned earlier, it is the local press that is not the giving local sports enough credit. If you said less people are watching tv, then even lesser people are reading the papers, since you have been using the press coverage as a basis of notable or not. But do you have statistics to prove that people are watching less tv? Companies are still spending millions on tv advertisements. They are not stupid, right? ;) If you prefer to use social media as a basis, his facebook page has more than 16000 likes and followers https://www.facebook.com/noontalk.damien/ and the 6-minute video on him receiving the acting award has more than 19000 views on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkFLdKUZ-Hw&t=231s


 * Then on what basis do you come up with the theory that "the local press that is not the giving local sports enough credit"? How do you know they do not give local sports enough credit? Do you know how they work? It is a LOCAL newspaper, and a LOCAL is participating in a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, do you think they would not want to cover it in the papers? But the thing is, are they obliged to cover ALL local sports news, even those that are not notable and probably no one would want to know/read about? Running a newspaper is all about generating revenue and gaining readership - and to ensure this is of course to feature only news that would draw the attention of their readers and of great notability in their limited amount of newspaper space. It is NEVER about whether the local press wants to give local sports enough credit or not. They would of course give credit where credit's due. But if there is no "credit" to even begin with, then what do you expect from them? Force them to cover his participation in the championships when they don't think it is notable enough to cover it? Like what I've mentioned earlier, if his participation is newsworthy/notable, they will publish it. It is not about whether they give enough credit or not. If it is not notable, they won't cover, simple as that.


 * I do not know if lesser people are reading the papers, but what does this got to do with his notability as a Wushu world championships participant? The problem is not about whether the people are reading the papers! It is about his participation is deemed not notable enough to be covered by the local press! Nobody wants to cover it! Why? Because not notable/newsworthy! Whether the people are reading the papers is totally another question.


 * I can't produce statistics to prove that people are watching lesser tv, but what I can say is in this year Star Awards,　they have stopped giving out the Top-Rated Drama Serials/Variety Programme awards, which is determined by television viewership in the year. Why? Because television viewership is now unable to determine the popularity of the shows now because more viewers are shifting to watching shows online, as they stopped watching them on TV. With regards to this, there is a reason why I put this pointer as a side note in my earlier argument because I never intended to use this to argue his notability as an artiste, because the shows that Damien Teo was in, they might be popular and top-rated with high tv viewership, but he is not even the lead actor but just a supporting/bit player! So what makes you think that his appearance in the local dramas was the cause of its high viewership? Are you sure he is the reason why the dramas were so popular? Does it mean that I am a notable artiste just because I was featured in a drama with high viewership?


 * And I never said I prefer social media as a basis of his notability. In fact, there are more people (especially social influencers) with higher social media followers and youtube video views than him, but I don't see that any of them has a Wikipedia article opened up for them. Having high social media following does not mean that he is an established artiste or notable Wushu championships participant, which is what we are talking about here. DerricktanJCW (talk) 12:01, 8 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I can only say I am a sports lover and have travelled much. The local press coverage of local sports is really pathetic. If you don't believe, just check today's Straits Times. Of course, there are many more notable people who have not been written in Wikipedia. This is normal. But I think enough have been said. Perhaps we can vote. ;)


 * I think you still do not understand the fact that the local press are not obliged to cover all local sports news if they think they are not newsworthy. If there are no news, means there are no news! The coverage is "pathetic" because there is nothing for them to cover! Are they supposed to produce news out of nowhere? There's nothing really much about sports that is happening in Singapore that is newsworthy enough to be covered by the press for the past few days. The local sports market in Singapore is so small, nothing big with regards to sports is happening locally, it's perfectly normal for the coverage to be small.


 * And yes, we are voting right here. And up till now I still cannot decipher your stand because you have been bringing up argument points that do not seem to be unable to link back to whether if Damien Teo is an established local artiste or Wushu championship participant in Singapore. So do you think we should keep this page because he is an established local artiste, a notable Wushu championship participant, or both? In my opinion, you are just bringing up random points to counter my claims that Damien Teo is not an notable individual in Singapore in an effort to keep this page but you can't seem to be able to provide concrete evidence to prove otherwise. In fact, you seem to place more emphasis on my claims on the nature of local sports news coverage, RATHER THAN the notability of Damien Teo as an individual in Singapore, which is what we are really discussing here. This wouldn't have happened if you really feel strongly about his existing notability in Singapore as an artiste/wushu practitioner. If you feel like you have said enough, then I would like to suggest to the Wikipedia administrator to delete this page because your argument points are not strong enough. Thank you. :D DerricktanJCW (talk) 12:03, 9 June 2017 (UTC)


 * It is indeed strange that you only consider your points as valid but not mine. You brought up the press as a yardstick. Then you said more people are not watching tv nowadays. Aren't you contradicting yourself? You should know that the only press in Singapore is tightly controlled by the government. Although other entries in Wikipedia are more notable than Damien Teo, there are many who are less notable but still appearing in Wikipedia. Shouldn't they be removed too? Eg Fabian Kwok has a one-line description. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Kwok Have you heard of him? There are many of such entires in Wikipedia. Wushu is China's national sport and a future Olympic sport. A sixth placing on the world stage is nothing? Com'on.... I can only conclude that it is your personal opinion that Damien Teo is not notable. He has even performed his wushu skills on national tv.
 * I have no objection to the other child actors except this one. I vote keep.


 * May I know how am I contradicting myself? Please kindly get your facts right. When I brought up the evidence that his participation in the championships is not being covered by the local press, I am trying to support my claims that the participation itself is not newsworthy enough to be covered. His participation is not notable enough and no one is covering it in the press. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO TRIED TO REBUT MY CLAIMS BY TYING IN THE TOPIC ON NEWSPAPER READERSHIP AND TELEVISION VIEWERSHIP. I have never, in my initial claims, mentioned anything about newspaper readership or television viewership because to me it simply makes no sense. What does this got to do with the notability of his participation? You said that I am contradicting myself because I am using press coverage to support my claims on Damien Teo's notability but on the other hand I am saying that television viewership (and newspaper readership, as what you claimed) is decreasing over the years. So please enlighten me on this - if a newspaper with an 'extremely low readership' covered Joseph Schooling's gold medal win at the Olympics, does it mean that Schooling's win is not notable? Are you trying to say that low readership downplay the notability of his gold medal win? This is what you have been trying to counter my claims with! You are saying that I should not be using the press coverage of Damien Teo's participation as an evidence to support my claims because I said that lesser people are reading the papers! Does this make any sense at all? Whether the people are reading the papers or not, does it affect his notability as a Wushu championship participant? His participation was not covered because it lacks notability, and readership has nothing got to do with it. Please kindly wake up your idea.


 * Yes, the press in Singapore is tightly controlled by the government and practice censorship. So? Are you saying Damien's participation in the championship was being censored by the government, that's why it was not featured in the press? Is this something embarrassing? A LOCAL is participating in a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, I don't see any reason why local press would be restricted by the government to publish this piece of news. In your reference to your earlier claims, if you are saying that the government controls the local press by restricting the number of local sports news, which results in more coverage in foreign sports news, just think about this, do you really think it is even possible for the government to tell the press to favour foreign news over their local news? This is again, not making any sense, with your argument point on the government controlling the local press.


 * I do not care about other Wikipedia pages. If you feel they are less notable than Damien Teo you may raise a deletion request on your own. Nobody is stopping you. We are talking about Damien Teo here and I feel that he is not notable enough to deserve a Wikipedia article, based on my arguments above. A less notable person with a Wikipedia article would not change the fact that the individual in question here is still NOT NOTABLE.


 * Yes, this is of course my personal opinion that Damien Teo is not notable, and this is the reason why I am here raising a deletion request, JUSTIFYING my stand to convince the administrators that he is indeed not notable as both an artiste and Wushu practitioner. I believe I have been firm on my argument points, and your attempts to counter my claims has been proved futile because you failed to even understand where I am coming from, especially when you tried to bring up irrelevant pointers on "lack of local sports coverage" and "low newspaper readership" to counter my claims on the notability of his participation when they do not even have any relation. Like what I have mentioned earlier, you are just trying to bring up random points in an effort to keep this page, and most of your responses do not even directly address my argument – you just come up with new pointers or examples and I believe this is the reason why somewhere in the middle we got off-topic and started talking about newspaper readership and television viewership instead of addressing the actual issue.


 * Therefore, I would like to conclude that your arguments on Damien Teo's notability as invalid. I stand by my proposition that Damien Teo is neither an established local artiste or Wushu practitioner and his Wikipedia article should be deleted. DerricktanJCW (talk) 14:05, 10 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I just want you to take note that a government controlled single press versus many independent newspapers in other countries. Different papers may emphasize on different aspects. Notability by newspapers coverage was the very first thing mentioned at the top of this thread. So now you said this should not be used as a yardstick anymore. I am glad that you admit it is just your personal opinion but with no basis. A 16000 likes and followers on facebook and 19000 views on youtube is small number to you. You are probably comparing it with bigger countries. Singapore is a small country with a small population. I believe this is justified enough for his article to be kept.


 * Wow wow wow, since when did I mention that I am not using newspaper coverage as a "yardstick" anymore? Are you even reading what I've written above? Do you even know what you're writing as you attempt to counter my argument? I already said his participation was not notable enough to be covered. It is the nature of the news itself. It's a piece of news that no one wants to feature on their publication. You tried to link it with newspaper readership just because I said television viewership is decreasing in Singapore. How is this even related? Whether the people are reading the paper is what happens after the papers have been published. I am talking about at the pre-publication stage, no one wants to feature his participation because it is not newsworthy. This is what I am talking about here. Please stop accusing me of the things that I didn't say, and again, please get your facts right.


 * Again, I don't understand why you think government control was the reason why his participation wasn't covered in the local press. There is absolutely no reason why the government would restrict the press to not cover Damien's participation in the championships. It's obviously something not embarrassing and even something worth mentioning about because a Singaporean is representing their nation in a world championship. But why is this not covered? The reason that I can think about is - it's not newsworthy. It's not notable. No one is interested to know about it. Goverment control has nothing got to do with this.


 * Everyone can have their own opinions, including you, who thinks that he is notable enough to have his Wikipedia page kept. This is obviously also your personal opinion. It all starts with a personal opinion. But when you can JUSTIFY your opinion and convince the others, it is no longer a personal opinion but a FACT. This is what I am doing here, and please, you are the one who is making no sense by bringing up random and irrelevant argument points that has no basis. All your responses above is the truth, everyone can see it, and it amplifies the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about and never directly addresses my argument points.


 * He may have a relatively high social media following, but does this prove that he is an established actor or wushu practitioner in Singapore? He may just be a popular social media personality, like any other social media influencer. An notable actor needs to have a representative work, a notable sportsman needs to have a remarkable placing in world competitions (please stop saying that placing 6th in an extremely NICHE JUNIOR world championship is considered notable) – which Damien has none of those.


 * I stand by my proposition, to have this page deleted. DerricktanJCW (talk) 06:23, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Only one !vote per editor, folks...

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Exemplo347 (talk) 13:45, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The difference in other countries where there are many independent newspapers is that they can choose to focus on different areas. If Damien Teo has been in another county, the chances of him being reported by at least one or two papers are higher than the single newspapers that S'pore has. This is the difference I want to make. And if you are still taking press coverage as a yardstick, why are you reject tv viewership? Newspapers readership has been dropping faster than tv viewership.

The reasons I am supporting him are as follow:-
 * 1. He is the first and only person to win the Young Actor award twice. The 6-min youtube video of him receiving the award has 19000 views. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkFLdKUZ-Hw
 * 2. He had appeared in 7 tv dramas, 2 films and 1 movie. He had also given wushu performance on national tv. His matured acting would definitely leave an impression on any one who had watched him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdD46C7lUsI
 * 3. The tv dramas he had appeared have the highest viewership in Singapore, past statistics put the figures at 800 000 to 1 million. This is 10 times higher than the top American tv series.
 * 4. His facebook page has 16000 likes and followers. Not a small feat for a small country with a small population like Singapore. https://www.facebook.com/noontalk.damien/
 * 5. A 6th placing at the world wushu stage is a major achievement. The 1-min youtube video of his performance has almost 10 000 views. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50qoLcM3m14
 * 6. Wushu is not a extremely niche sport as claimed. The last World Championship has 73 countries competing. The World Youth Championship is a stepping stone for young wushu martial artists. http://www.iwuf.org/news/2016/0119/993.html
 * 7. Last but not least, at the age of 16, he is no longer a child actor but a teenaged actor.

So I vote to KEEP


 * Quote 1: "And if you are still taking press coverage as a yardstick, why are you reject tv viewership? Newspapers readership has been dropping faster than tv viewership."


 * I think you really have a problem with comprehending what other people are saying. Why are you linking press coverage with newspaper readership, AGAIN? I thought I have explained above that this two are very different thing? The newspaper readership DOES NOT determine whether a news is being covered. A news is being covered when it is newsworthy. Nothing got to do with readership. Again, do you have any idea what you are talking about?


 * Quote 2: "The difference in other countries where there are many independent newspapers is that they can choose to focus on different areas. If Damien Teo has been in another county, the chances of him being reported by at least one or two papers are higher than the single newspapers that S'pore has."


 * What nonsense is this? Do you know how many publications Singapore has? The Straits Times, The New Paper, Today, Lianhe Zaobao, Lianhe Wanbao, Shinmin Daily, Berita Harian, etc. There are so many! "Single newspaper"? Really? And what does this got to do with whether his news is deemed newsworthy enough to be covered or not? More newspaper means higher chances of coverage? Really? Do you even have any idea how the media works? Do you know why in 2004 Mediacorp was merged with SPH Mediaworks? Because SINGAPORE IS A SMALL COUNTRY AND THE MARKET SHARE FOR THE MEDIA INDUSTRY IS SMALL. The amount of media we have now is ENOUGH for a small country like us. In other countries, there are many publications because the country is HUGE, it is made up of many different cities and the publications are published to cater the people living in different cities. In Singapore, we are a city. The number of publications we have may not be as much as other countries, but please bare in mind that we are a CITY-STATE. What we have here is enough. Nothing to do with your theory about government control, or the lack of publications in Singapore (which I have proven above that it is not true for our small country) that has caused the lack of coverage of Damien's participation in the world championship. His news was not covered because it is not newsworthy. Period.


 * Quote 3: "He is the first and only person to win the Young Actor award twice. The 6-min youtube video of him receiving the award has 19000 views."


 * This statement AMUSES me THE MOST because this is a total ultimate evidence to show that you KNOW NOTHING about what you are talking about and just throwing in random pointers so that you can keep this page. Damien Teo is NOT the first and only person to win the award twice. Lyn Oh has achieved this feat in 2013 and 2014, way before Teo in 2015 and 2016. And to add on to this joke, Regene Lim has won the award THRICE CONSECUTIVELY, from 2009 to 2011. So Damien Teo is neither the record holder for the most number of wins in this award, and neither is he the first and only person to win the award twice consecutively. Do some research, will you? It's funny how you just throw and bomb in stuff here which is not factual and it just shows how misleading you are in making people think that we should keep this page because of his supposedly notability which is non-existent.


 * And the articles of Regene Lim and Lyn Oh have been deleted because they do not have any notability as a child actor in Singapore despite winning multiple awards at the Star Awards. So your argument on the awards is no longer valid. The award is nothing.


 * Hey, I have a video here with Julie Tan receiving the Best Supporting Actress from the same award ceremony. link It has only 6,288 views. Does this mean that she is less notable than Damien Teo as an actor? Do the video views really prove anything? So what it has a lot of views? Does it mean that Damien Teo is an established actor? I have already said, an actor needs to have a representative work to be considered notable. Damien Teo is nothing but a bit player in drama series. Julie Tan has established herself as a notable actress in Singapore and has won praises for her performance in several drama series, especially The Dream Makers II. Does Damien has any of these? The people are probably watching the video because he has a pretty face. That's it. No way is it able to prove anything about his notability as an actor.


 * Quote 4: "He had appeared in 7 tv dramas, 2 films and 1 movie."


 * So? My friend, who is also an actor in Singapore, probably appeared in more tv dramas or productions than him (and mind you he is not a calefare but play major supporting roles). Are you saying this makes my friend notable? In any of the "7 tv dramas, 2 films and 1 movie", is any one of them considered as Damien's representative work? Can people think of Damien when they were asked about these shows? Damien can appear in 7 million shows but if no one can link him to any of his works than he is just an actor with no notability.


 * Quote 5: "He had also given wushu performance on national tv."


 * My friend has once gave a solo performance during National Day Parade. Should I create an article for her too?


 * Quote 6: "His matured acting would definitely leave an impression on any one who had watched him."


 * No. I don't have any impression. No one does. Again, someone with matured acting doesn't make the person a notable actor.


 * Quote 7: "His facebook page has 16000 likes and followers. Not a small feat for a small country with a small population like Singapore."


 * It's funny how you are ignoring my statement earlier that his social following does not prove anything about his notability as an actor or a wushu practitioner. Just in case you have certain visual impairment that I have no idea about which has caused you to unable to read my earlier argument in its entirety, let me quote what I've said earlier below:


 * Again, people might just follow him on socials because he has a pretty face. That's it.


 * Quote 8: "A 6th placing at the world wushu stage is a major achievement. "


 * If you think it is then so be it. It may seem like huge feat because it's a world competition but honestly, a top 3 placing, with him winning a medal or some sort is then considered notable for him to have a Wikipedia article created. Nobody really cares about those who came in after 3rd in world championships. If we have to create articles for all the Tom Dick and Harry who finished in all of the placings in world championships, Wikipedia would become freaking cluttered with nonsensical articles. This is the reason why we are regulating the amount of articles by making sure that only NOTABLE individuals are warranted an article.


 * Quote 9: "Wushu is not a extremely niche sport as claimed. The last World Championship has 73 countries competing. The World Youth Championship is a stepping stone for young wushu martial artists."


 * Wushu is a sport that can only enjoyed by a select demographic. It is more common in the Asian countries and not everyone in the world practices this sport, unlike Table Tennis, Badminton, etc. When this sport is being featured in the Olympics, that's when you tell me it is not considered as niche sport. No matter how many countries have participated, Damien Teo is still not exactly competing against everyone in the world. It's a niche sport at a niche world championship. It does not have much notability. Moreover, it is a YOUTH championship. It's like the Youth Olympics which no one pays at much attention to the actual Olympics. Yes, it is a stepping stone, but you still have to admit that such youth competitions have lesser notability and people place lesser attention on the events and sportsperson from the games. The Wushu championship itself is already so niche, how much notability and attention can the youth championship for the sport garner?


 * Quote 10: "Last but not least, at the age of 16, he is no longer a child actor but a teenaged actor."


 * So are you arguing his notability as a child actor or teenage actor? Can you please make up your mind? You wanted to keep this article because of all his achievements as a child actor (even the Young Talent award at the Star Awards was given out to only the child actors), but now you want to identify him as a teenage actor. As a teenage actor, his notability is way worse than when he was a child actor, without receiving any awards and representative work. So does this mean that we should delete this article?


 * Conclusion: I think I have been repeating myself so much to you, DragTian (talk), that I feel like a broken recorder. Neither do you get what I am saying, nor do you even know what you are arguing when you are trying to counter my argument. Worst still, you even tried to put up NON FACTUAL CLAIMS and this shows how much you know about the subject in question, WITHOUT ANY BASIS OR RESEARCH. You seem to think that he is an established actor or wushu practitioner just because he has a relatively high social media following and has made appearance in local television and world championships, but all these do not prove his notability at all. I have mentioned that in my earlier argument that "an notable actor needs to have a representative work, a notable sportsman needs to have a remarkable placing", which I believe you have stubbornly chose to ignore because you CANNOT COUNTER THIS ARGUMENT BECAUSE IT IS TRUE THAT DAMIEN TEO HAS NO REPRESENTATIVE WORK AS AN ACTOR AND HAS NO PROMINENT PLACING IN WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. I would like to appeal to the Wikipedia administrators to totally ignore DragTian's argument in this deletion request and deemed them as invalid because it has been proven that he is incapable of showing evidence to prove Damien Teo's notability and also just throwing in random, non-factual pointers in an effort to keep this page.


 * Therefore, I stand by my proposition: Damien Teo is not a notable artiste and wushu practitioner in Singapore, and his page should be deleted. DerricktanJCW (talk) 02:21, 13 June 2017 (UTC)


 * SINGAPORE IS A SMALL COUNTRY AND THE MARKET SHARE FOR THE MEDIA INDUSTRY IS SMALL. I must point out how wrong you are in making this statement. Do you know how many newspapers Hong Kong have? The answer is 54!! Check the info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Hong_Kong and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Hong_Kong Do you know how the S'pore newspapers have been working nowadays? All belong to the same company and they reproduce each other stories! And some news are only reported two days after social media have reported them! No thanks to the dwindling number of reporters they have now. And to call wushu a niche sport when 73 countries participated in the world championship is not giving due respect to the sport.

You may also like to know that Damien is now the pin-up poster boy of Martial House, the leading martial arts school in Singapore. https://www.facebook.com/martialhouse/photos/a.231019160299653.53946.101064903295080/1301692023232356/?type=3&theater There is also a discussion forum on him in the famous China site http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3901576781 Check out the number of Hong Kong actors in Wikipedia. Many do not have representative work too. Why are they still in Wikipedia? We can't simply use your standard and judgement, especially it is merely your own opinion without any basis.


 * Quote 11: "All belong to the same company and they reproduce each other stories!"


 * I am totally blown away by you when you mention this statement because once again you are putting up non-factual claims again. Please do some research and show some credibility in your argument, will you? This is total utter nonsense. All you sure all publications belong to the same company? The Straits Times and Today, same company? Are you serious? Do you know Mediacorp and SPH have always been competing against each other for the exclusivity in their news? If a news is newsworthy and they fail to cover, their readers will go to their competitor. "Reproduce each other stories"? What nonsense! They will never do that! Who is the one here that has no idea about how the local newspaper market? Stop making a fool out of yourself. if Damien's participation in the championships is newsworthy, do you think any of the news outlets, be it Mediacorp or SPH or both, would not want to cover the story? When no one covered his participation, it means that his participation is not newsworthy! No one wants to know about it! It's not notable! Get it? I've repeated this countless times and I have no idea if my words were too sophisticated for you to understand or you have a problem with comprehending other people's words.


 * Quote 12: "Do you know how many newspapers Hong Kong have? The answer is 54!!"


 * You need to understand that the number of newspapers will not undermine the newsworthiness of a newspaper story. So more newspaper means the higher chance of a story to be covered? Huh? Are you really sure about this? I have already established the fact that a news is only being covered when it is newsworthy. If the news is not newsworthy no one would want to cover. It does not make a difference if Singapore has a million newspaper publications, or just one. Even if there is just one, if Damien's participation in the championships is newsworthy enough, they will cover it. That's it. It's all about newsworthiness. Stop bringing in all your nonsense theory about newspaper readership, government control, the lack of newspapers available in Singapore, or even editors favouring foreign news over local news to counter my argument on why Damien's participation was not being featured in the local press. Just accept it that the foreign news were more interesting and no one wants to read about a non notable local sportsman participating in a non notable championship. Period.


 * Quote 13: "And to call wushu a niche sport when 73 countries participated in the world championship is not giving due respect to the sport."


 * When a sport is not being practiced in every country, and also the fact that it is more commonly among the Asians, I am right to say that it is a niche sport. It does not mean that I am not giving any respect to it because it is a fact. No matter how many countries have participated in the championship, it still does not change the fact that it is a niche sport.


 * Quote 14: "You may also like to know that Damien is now the pin-up poster boy of Martial House, the leading martial arts school in Singapore."


 * Huh? So? Does this mean he is a notable wushu practitioner? I can get anyone to pose for the Martial Arts school also. Even a model who does not even practice the sport. So much about being a POSTER BOY, huh? I didn't know you become a notable individual when you become a poster boy. He was selected probably because he attends the school and has better looks among his peers. Again, it's all because he has a pretty face, and not because he is a notable Wushu practitioner. Wake up your idea, please!!!!! I have mention this point countless times as well.


 * Quote 15: "There is also a discussion forum on him in the famous China site"


 * Let me translate what the thread-starter said: "I only know that he is an artiste contracted under Noon Talk, Young Talent award winner in 2015 and a martial arts professional".


 * Are you sure you even want to provide this evidence to show that he is an established artiste? The person doesn't even know his name! How can he even be notable in Singapore when people can't even call out his name? The forum is full of screenshots of his supporting performances in drama series and his personal photos, and comments on how good-looking he is. Little has been said about his acting skills or anything was mention by the public to prove that he is an established artiste. It all shows that I am right, he is popular and has a high social media following all because he has got a pretty face and has nothing to do with him as an actor. The notability of him as an actor is what we are talking about here.


 * Quote 16: "Check out the number of Hong Kong actors in Wikipedia. Many do not have representative work too. Why are they still in Wikipedia? We can't simply use your standard and judgement, especially it is merely your own opinion without any basis."


 * Again, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT OTHER ARTICLES. I have mentioned if you think they are not notable, you can raise a deletion request for those articles. I have little knowledge about foreign actors, so there's no way I can comment about them. But I do know a lot more about local actors and the local media industry, and I know how notable Damien is in Singapore, and here I am raising a deletion request and justifying why he does not deserve an article. It is not a personal opinion without any basis. In fact I am insulted that this came from you because you are the one who spouts nonsense and provide non-factual claims TWICE. You have absolutely no credibility and no idea about how the local media industry works. To put it bluntly, to me you are probably just a supporter of Damien and do not wish to see his page go, and is totally delusional about his supposedly notability in Singapore which is non-existent.


 * And in my previous argument I have addressed so many issues in your statement, totaled up to 10. But you only responded to a few of them. Why are you not responding to them? Are you guilty or there is no comeback from you all because I was right in everything that I said? Even if you do respond, you gave non-factual claims or go out-of-point because you simply do not understand where I am coming from. I do not know to deal with you anymore because I feel like I'm talking to a loghead. DerricktanJCW (talk) 03:21, 14 June 2017 (UTC)


 * You started off seeming to be fair. But you are so adamant in deleting his entry that you have gone totally biased, refusing to see other valid reasons. Perhaps you want to save face. Why would I want to rebut every single thing that you said, especially those that make no sense at all?

"And a sixth placing is considered as notable?", "in an extremely NICHE JUNIOR world championship" - I am leaving others to judge whether wushu is an extremely niche sport. 73 countries participated in the world championship. There are other countries who may not have sent participant because they do not have world standard wushu participant.
 * "the competition in question is not even notable or recognised worldwide", "an international competition which has no notability",
 * "A less notable person with a Wikipedia article would not change the fact that the individual in question here is still NOT NOTABLE." - Did you consider the fact that these less notable people with articles in Wikipedia for years and nobody has raised a deletion request against them, say something? This means that they are notable enough for Wikipedia standard!
 * "SINGAPORE IS A SMALL COUNTRY AND THE MARKET SHARE FOR THE MEDIA INDUSTRY IS SMALL." - I have shown you that HK has 54 newspapers.
 * "My friend has once gave a solo performance during National Day Parade. Should I create an article for her too?" - Yes if she is the only performer on National Day Parade, but not if she is just one of the hundreds or thousands of performers. Damien was the only performer on that tv show.
 * "Again, people might just follow him on socials because he has a pretty face. That's it." - You can't simply make such assumption and brush it off.
 * "Reproduce each other stories"? What nonsense! They will never do that!" - Obviously you are one who do not read the newspapers.
 * "I can get anyone to pose for the Martial Arts school also. Even a model who does not even practice the sport." - The fact is that the martial arts school did not do that, but got Damien to be their pin-up poster boy. Ask yourself why.
 * "The forum is full of screenshots of his supporting performances in drama series and his personal photos, and comments on how good-looking he is" - The fact is that there is interest aroused among netizens but not for other child actors.


 * Quote 17: "You started off seeming to be fair. But you are so adamant in deleting his entry that you have gone totally biased, refusing to see other valid reasons. Perhaps you want to save face."


 * HA HA HA!!! I am biased? Your reasons are valid? This must be the biggest joke ever because the stuff you came up with are non-factual, lies. You don't even know your stuff, and you have the cheek to say that I am biased and refused to accept your supposedly valid reasons? How am I biased? Just because I don't accept your nonsense I am biased? Just because I debunked all your nonsense, I am biased? Wow! I will be biased if I relented and accepted your NONSENSICAL responses. I came up with justified reasoning with facts, and you did not. You insisted that Damien is notable just because he has a high social media following and have made appearances in various shows. But you can't argue the fact that all these doesn't make him a notable individual in Singapore. You are the one that is biased, and stubborn, and chose to ignore what I've said. Don't say that I am trying to save my face because I am not. I stand by with whatever I've said and I am proud of it. On the contrary, you can't even make up your mind whether if he is an established artiste or sportsman in Singapore, and have been constantly throwing in random pointers after pointers after I refuted each of them. You are the one that is trying to save face, not me.


 * Quote 18: "Why would I want to rebut every single thing that you said, especially those that make no sense at all?"


 * If you think that I made no sense, then say it! How am I not making any sense? Tell everyone here! Provide evidences, like what I've done. I pointed out each and every of your senseless arguments, so why can't you do the same? Why are you keeping silent if you think whatever I've said is nonsense? Prove that I am wrong! Isn't this supposed to be a discussion? You should be addressing my supposedly senseless arguments instead of keep throwing in new pointers. The fact that you are avoiding my arguments and refusing to address them, only shows that you cannot counter them. It just goes to show that your argument is weak, and you need to come up with new points to support them. Oh, is this what you mean by "saving face"? Because I totally trashed your arguments and you have to come up with new stuffs to divert my attention from all your senseless points.


 * But it's not working because remember you said "He is the first and only person to win the Young Actor award twice"? I still remember this. So try harder to save your face, because I will never forget it :)


 * Quote 19: "I am leaving others to judge whether wushu is an extremely niche sport. 73 countries participated in the world championship. There are other countries who may not have sent participant because they do not have world standard wushu participant."


 * Why are you letting the others to judge? If you believe so much in this, then why can't you argue yourself? Just because I have debunked this? Or is it because you can no longer argue why you think Wushu is not a niche sport? Ok, so throw the ball to other people when you can no longer argue. This is so your style. I totally understand.


 * How do you know they have no world standard participant? What is the world standard? You can't participate in the world championship just because you do not have the "world standard"? Who says that? I can't believe you think that people can be barred from participating or the country refuses to send their countrymen out for a championship just because they do not have the so called "world standard". You don't give up before you even try to win? Is this even in line with the spirit of sportsmanship? Eric Moussambani from Equatorial Guinea represented his country in the 2000 Olympics 100m freestyle men swimming event. He clocked 1:52.72, the slowest time in Olympic history by far for the event. This guy even confessed he had never seen an Olympic-sized swimming pool before. But he still went for the olympics! The country sent him there! The country can send anyone whom they think is the best in their country to participate in the championships, if there is even any. Whether they have the "world standard" or not, it's up to how they perform during the championships. How sure are you that a wushu practitioner without the "world standard" will not win one with the "world standard"? Anyone can win, and anyone can participate in the championships. Who are you to judge?


 * Even if your theory is true, then why do you think the country lacks "world standard" participant? Is it because only a few people in the country practice the sport? Isn't this why the sport is considered niche? Why are you contradicting yourself, or should I say digging a hole for you to jump? Save some face, will you? Since saving face is so important. :)


 * Quote 20: "Did you consider the fact that these less notable people with articles in Wikipedia for years and nobody has raised a deletion request against them, say something? This means that they are notable enough for Wikipedia standard!"


 * It says that there are many people who CREATES RUBBISH on Wikipedia but there are little LIKE ME who REGULATES these nonsensical articles. It goes to show that more people need to step up their game and eliminate these articles by raising a deletion request. These pages probably has little views and no one knows their existence. If no one takes the initiative to delete them, then it's gonna be there forever. Don't try to bring this evidence up to prove your point because anyone can create articles on Wikipedia. And raising deletion request is difficult there would be people like you who will try to oppose the request with senseless arguments. People are also discouraged from raising a deletion request even if they feel this is the right thing to do, because apparently doing this makes them "lose face". Ah! How many faces have I lost by doing this, and responding to nonsense? LOL.


 * Oh, and how do you know these people are less notable? Why should I believe you? You have absolutely no credibility! Maybe these people are way more notable than Damien and you are just too delusional to know this, because apparently to you Damien is a local superstar when people with the right sound of mind know that he is not. But again, if you think they are less notable, then raise a deletion request! Let other Wikipedia editors to argue whether if they are really less notable.


 * Quote 21: "I have shown you that HK has 54 newspapers."
 * I have shown you that the number of newspapers does not affect the chances of a piece of news to be covered in the local press. Grow some eyes.


 * Quote 22: "Yes if she is the only performer on National Day Parade, but not if she is just one of the hundreds or thousands of performers. Damien was the only performer on that tv show."
 * ONLY PERFORMER? So you are saying the whole show was dedicated to just showing his performance? Is there such show? Really? I have never heard that a Singaporean tv show was produced just to show a non-notable individual performing Wushu. LOL. This is third time you are lying. Keep the number going. :)


 * And please don't tell me the show is The Sheng Shiong Show. If it's really that show, then please, it's so obvious that Damien got to perform all because of Dasmond Koh. It's definitely not because he is a notable Wushu practitioner. You can call me out for assuming this, but well, everyone has got eyes to see that it's all because of Damien's connection with Koh.


 * When she was giving the solo performance, the stage was hers. No other performers was with her on the stage. Basically the time was hers. The whole Singapore was watching her, and just her on TV for the duration of that performance. So how is this different from your so called tv show with Damien as the "only performer"? And again, so should I create an article for my friend because apparently an individual can be warranted one when they perform on tv. If I do not create, my friend would probably lose face. :)


 * Quote 23: "You can't simply make such assumption and brush it off."
 * Oh you can assume that he is a notable individual in Singapore and I can't assume that he is popular just because he got a pretty face? Who's the one that is bias here? Are you trying to lose more face? :))


 * Quote 24: "Obviously you are one who do not read the newspapers."
 * I really don't. :) But I know how the media industry works. This has nothing got to do with whether I read the papers or watch the TV or not. And you seriously need to get your eyes check because you have once again ignored my point that it is impossible for them to reproduce each others' stories because Mediacorp and SPH are media competitors.


 * Quote 25: "The fact is that the martial arts school did not do that, but got Damien to be their pin-up poster boy. Ask yourself why."
 * Because he has a prettier face than the models available? Hahahahahahahahaah!!!!!!!!! What a blessed boy to have such a pretty face.


 * Quote 26: "The fact is that there is interest aroused among netizens but not for other child actors."
 * So you mean he is considered a notable individual because the netizens are interested in him because of his good looks? So anyone with good looks is now considered notable? Hmm ok maybe I should feedback this to Wikipedia and create articles for all the random good looking Toms, Dicks, and Harrys in Singapore. :)

At this point, I can't be serious with you anymore. Since I can't talk any sense into you, then I probably should communicate in your language, which is the nonsensical way so that you can understand me. Cheers! :) DerricktanJCW (talk) 05:30, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete All- okay that was exhausting, both reading through the WP:WALLOFTEXT above, and doing searches on all of these non-notable child actors. There are a lot of people with these names, but from what I could find, there is no in-depth coverage of any of these actors, so they fail WP:GNG, and they certainly don't come close to passing WP:NACTOR.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 21:21, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: Thank you so much for this. Finally someone is making sense here! DerricktanJCW (talk) 03:32, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
 * delete them all just not meeting the GNG. 'nuff said.Dlohcierekim (talk) 07:09, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete all per Onel5969. - The   Magnificentist  17:59, 19 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.