Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Damola Ayegbayo (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I'll issue some protection for this page title. Liz Read! Talk! 01:45, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Damola Ayegbayo
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Still looks NN and promotional. UtherSRG (talk) 01:30, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and Nigeria. UtherSRG (talk) 01:30, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Come coverage in the Nigerian Tribune about an exhibit, seems RS. I don't find anything else about him, he's not in the Getty ULAN or other databases. Oaktree b (talk) 01:36, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete fails for same reasons this article was deleted in Dec 2022. Citations are mostly promotional press releases, interviews, and user populated sites. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:46, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt since creator appears unwilling to accept the results of the AfD. Given near verbatim source and formatting (although agree, not a G4) from some deleted history at the Draft, wonder if we're not also dealing with some laundry. Star   Mississippi  02:38, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Reply:Please my previous argument should not be used as a benchmark to this. Is not as if I refused to see reasons but did that on personal conviction which I now understand is wrong. I am sorry for that if that looks not good. I created this after I found some other references and felt it should be able to meet WP Artist ( because his works are in museums and private collections) or WP basic. Please kindly look closely at this[], [][][][] On Saatchi it an art exhibition catalog publish by Issuu kindly see this[].it not anyone (Artist) that gets into the catalog. Once again I am sorry if my comments on previous AFD wasn't pleasant.Bernice2019 (talk) 18:47, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete - I find it problematic that the notable collections, like MoMA, the Yemisi Shyllon Museum of Art and others simply don't check out with the museums' collection search tools. Saachi Art is not a collection, it is a online service where any artist can upload their work. This is very different than being in Charles Saachi's collection! It seems like a lot of the content was fabricated by a PR agency. Also a heads up that there is a draft of this same article waiting in the wings once this one is deleted, so I agree that salting is a good option. Delete as PROMO, and failure of WP:NARTIST. Netherzone (talk) 03:12, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Ugh, thanks for flagging @Netherzone. Between that and the alternate under which this was created before @UtherSRG moved it, there's definitely some deception afoot. I don't think there's enough yet for SPI but I have some concerns about . I've declined the draft with some stern words. Star   Mississippi  03:35, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Possible UPE... Netherzone (talk) 03:42, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Pinging @Liz who blocked and may have a pointer for us.  Star   Mississippi  03:49, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I can't believe I blocked that IP range for so long, that is really not the way I usually handle things. I must have had suspicions which I can't recall now. The first AFD was just last month and it's already back into main space again? I'm surprised that it didn't fit CSD G4. I don't know anything about the two editors you name but we have had persistent problems at AFD for the past few months with new sockpuppets showing up to vote, sometimes on their first day as an editor. AFD seems to be a magnet for these new editors. Liz Read! Talk! 03:59, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Liz. It was different enough that it wasn't a G4, although the draft @Netherzone is almost verbatim.
 * I've just filed Sockpuppet investigations/TheGrandSon as there's some blatant disruption around Ayegbayo and Fela Akinse. I won't be surprised if it's meat, but my sock radar is going off given the dusted off accounts. Star   Mississippi  04:07, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Moved to Sockpuppet investigations/Princek2019 and the involved editors are blocked. This isn't a G5 but may keep us out of SALT. Star   Mississippi  02:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Courtesy ping who  seemed to think there was promise.  Star   Mississippi  04:23, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I see it recreated yesterday after being sent to draft Draft:Damola Victor Ayegbayo. Cool artist. I was hoping to find some of the pieces in a museum somewhere but unfortunately not. I don't think it is a UPE, it was mum I think, although it could be for this article right enough. I think it is probably WP:TOOSOON. The work is steller, these type of statement pieces, so I think its only a matter of time.   scope_creep Talk  12:42, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This is the 3rd article that has been created in this series. I think the first one was the mum, these are definently UPE.   scope_creep Talk  14:18, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment based on the discussion above, we'd need to SALT. Oaktree b (talk) 15:32, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Reply:Please my previous argument should not be used as a benchmark to this. Is not as if I refused to see reasons but did that on personal conviction which I now understand is wrong. I am sorry for that if that looks not good. I created this after I found some other references and felt it should be able to meet WP Artist ( because his works are in museums and private collections) or WP basic. Please kindly look closely at this[], [][][][] On Saatchi it an art exhibition catalog publish by Issuu kindly see this[].it not anyone (Artist) that gets into the catalog. Once again I am sorry if my comments on previous AFD wasn't pleasant.Bernice2019 (talk) 18:47, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but you have not addressed why you're creating multiple versions under different titles in both main and draft space, or why the links you provide can't be verified with the museums collections. Star   Mississippi  20:12, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * , I know it's disappointing when an article we create is up for deletion, however the encyclopedia has specific standards for notability. To further explain, only two of the alleged collections are notable museums, but neither of these can be verified with the museums themselves. Verifiability is one of the key policies of Wikipedia, see WP:V. Anyone can make a claim about themselves or another person; what is needed for our purposes is verification from the museums that he is in their collections. But both come up cold with no results for his name. So even if collections are listed in an artist's resume or CV, but don't check out with the museums, they don't count towards notability. Regarding Saachi Art, this is an online service that any artist anywhere in the world can submit their work to their online registry; this is not the same as a museum collection at all - (we used to call these slide registries back in the day). Saachi Art is different than showing at the Saachi Gallery or being in the Charles Saachi Collection (both of which are notable), and is very, very different than Saachi Art which is not notable at all. It seems that perhaps at some point a PR person, or agent, or paid editor, or maybe the artist themself made the claim that they were in the two notable museum collections and the publications picked up on that assuming it was fact. The press coverage seems like native advertising or PR placement, and the interviews do not count towards notability, because it is him talking about himself. The Thames Art Center in NYC is a "pop-up gallery" in a party space that artists can pay to show their work; this and the other galleries/collections are not notable. Sorry for the length of this reply; I hope this helps to clarify and alleviate some of your disappointment. Netherzone (talk) 21:46, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * comment reply I dig deep and I found this see [] it show he has his Art works with Oyasaf ( the largest private arts collection in Nigeria) and parts of the artworks that was donated by the collector and owner ( Yemisi Adedoyin Shyllon ) to his privately funded Yemisi Shyllon Museum of Art Damola Ayegbayo works was included. Invariably it shows this publications[]] is not far from the truth that his artworks maybe their. Either way his artworks in Oyasaf or the museum going by the link shared ought to make him notable to pass WP Artist.Epcc12345 (talk) 19:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Epcc12345, firstly, thank you for declaring your conflict of interest with the subject of this article, Damola Ayegbayo. Regarding your note above I indeed was able to verify that his work is in a large private foundation collection, which is progress. But it does not prove that his work was among those donated to the Yemeni Shyllon Museum. The Y.S. Museum website or collection search engine does not mention him at all, so that remains unverifiable. It's still not enough to pass notability criteria #4 for WP:NARTIST which states that he needs to be in represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums. What is normally considered a notable gallery is a national gallery, such as those found here List of national galleries (not a commercial gallery). I respect the fact that you are familiar with the artists work, and think he may be notable within his community, but he's not yet ready for Wikipedia which has its own set of guidelines that were developed by consensus over a period of many years. It seems to be WP:TOOSOON at this time. Perhaps in a few years. Hope that helps. Netherzone (talk) 20:59, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * your explanation is clear but looking at other measures of notability like Wp basic, WP Any bio or even WP Artist #1 don't you still some possibilities of the subjects been notable. I will still dig deep though because one of his artworks was acquired by the State government, I Hope if I find that publications it will make him pass also ? Epcc12345 (talk) 05:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Reply: I dig deep I was able to see this 6 months publications See[] with that he should be able to pass WP artist the person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument #4 or WP basic People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject. or WP Anybio The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field I believe either way he should be able to pass in any of the stated cateria.Epcc12345 (talk) 22:47, 20 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete for non notability and UPE concerns. Best, Reading Beans (talk) 08:20, 21 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.