Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dan Brown (YouTube)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. JForget 13:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Dan Brown (YouTube)

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Article does not assert notability. Making youtube videos is not worthy of note (in most cases) and an exact google search only come back with 57 hits (excluding repeats) which would be low for any biography, but for someone whose fame is on the internet it is exceptionally low. I have no problem with a small paragraph about his Rubik's cube method on that article but otherwise he fails to meet the bar. Darrenhusted (talk) 10:45, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well even if you think it is worth keeping the paragraph on Rubik's Cube, don't you have to keep an article to contain it? Or do you mean merge the paragraph elsewhere - in which case this would become a redirect, and would still have to be kept for attribution purposes. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:13, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * A brief mention of his Rubik's cube video could go on the Rubik's cube page, there would not be a need for a redirect as the search would likely be for Rubik's cube, and Dan Brown goes to the author, so a mention could be on a disambiguation page, with a link to Rubik's cube. The bottom line is: the person is not notable, the video could be mentioned in passing at Rubik's cube, here. Darrenhusted (talk) 00:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Keep The reason for the proposed deletion states, "Article does not assert notability. Making youtube videos is not worthy of note..." The subject has not just "made YouTube videos." He has also gotten a huge number of viewers, earned a lot money from it, and been covered by multiple reliable sources. The subject is notable. Also, deletion discussions are supposed to last for a week, but this discussion was closed after less than one hour. Grundle2600 (talk) 19:52, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * By default any video on youtube will get viewers. The deletion discussion was opened and Ikip asked if I would be happy with a redirect, to which I agreed, but only on the grounds the article was not recreated. It has been so I stand by the nomination. Darrenhusted (talk) 22:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The so-called "discussion" to which you are referring was closed after less than one hour. Why are you against letting the discussion continue for a week so a consensus can be established? Grundle2600 (talk) 23:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

keep This seems to meet wikipedia standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.131.93 (talk) 20:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Delete dose not pass WP:N one or two articles in a news paper dose not make someone noteworthy to have a Wikipedia article. Above to Grundle2600 the deletion discussion being closed early was done by mistake by another editor obviously it has been reopened. Just because he has made a lot of money dose not make him notable you needed multiple reliable sources like you stated above but i do not see any but one news article. Kyle  1278  20:56, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Since the findings of the sources stated below and on the article I believe now it passes the basic notability guideline.  Kyle  1278  20:29, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Keep Any article can be changed and reformed to meet Wikipedia standards. Also, 100,000 subscribers, which he has passed recently, is definitely a significant feat and makes him notable. If having one of the (if not THE) most famous Rubik's Cube tutorials isn't enough, he has, as stated by Grundle2600, been covered in the news (I think I saw a CNN video somewhere), something that can often show a person is significant. --Kris18 (talk) 21:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * An exact search gets 57 ghits, does that seem significant? As I said make a paragraph about him on the Rubik's cube page, and link to his videos, but he falls way below the GNG bar. Darrenhusted (talk) 22:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, it gets 193,000 hits. Grundle2600 (talk) 23:44, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, if you click through to the end of the results, which means you subtract out duplicates, that search tops out at 648. When you're counting G-hits, always click through to the end. -GTBacchus(talk) 05:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Even more actuallier, this means that there are 648 distinct hits in the first 1,000 results, and gives no indication of the actual total of distinct hits. Try a search for Microsoft or Wikipedia in Google, it will end at a few hundred results as well. Clicking through to the end of Google results is only useful when you have about 2,000 hits at the most, and only certain when you have 1,000 hits or less. (And I agree that Google count is not a good measure in this case, because of the many false positives). Fram (talk) 11:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh. I didn't know that. Thank you. -GTBacchus(talk) 14:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * An exact search gets you 55-57 once repeats are removed. Simply put "Dan Brown Youtube". At the top of this AfD click the search. Darrenhusted (talk) 00:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Putting everything in one set of quotes means that the search only returns webpages where "YouTube" comes directly after "Dan Brown." So if a source said "Dan Brown is very popular on YouTube," it would not appear in that search. Grundle2600 (talk) 01:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, "Dan Brown YouTube" is not an exact phrase that's going to come up much. Put "Dan Brown" in quotes, and separate out the "YouTube" bit. That's how Google works. -GTBacchus(talk) 05:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem with "Dan Brown" "Youtube" is that is get a lot of un-related youtube hits, and a lot of unrelated Dan Brown (the other guy) hits. And normally I don't place too much weight on Ghits, but this guy is famous for being on the internet, so if he only has a handful of Ghits then that is a problem. Darrenhusted (talk) 09:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that's the problem with using Google to determine notability. Good thing we've got a Primary Notability Criterion, which says that "a topic is notable if it has received non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of the topic itself." To verify that, you don't need any particular number of G-hits; you just need a few independent sources that document the guy in a non-trivial manner. -GTBacchus(talk) 11:14, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Kris18, it is manifestly not the case that "any article can be changed and reformed to meet Wikipedia standards. I love my pet ferret, President Fuzz, very much, but an article on her can not be saved. Hence, I bite my tongue, and I don't write it. And no, I'm not calling Dan Brown a ferret. The word "notable", at Wikipedia, means in general one thing: "A topic is notable if it has been the subject of non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources independent of the topic itself." For specific subject areas, there are more specific criteria, some of which are easier (in a sense) to meet, but nowhere on this project does notable mean "a significant feat", "famous", "important", "popular", "impressive", "n Google hits" (where n is any particular number) or "I think I saw a CNN video somewhere". -GTBacchus(talk) 05:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * This is why I quit doing anything with Wikipedia a long time ago (until this problem came to my attention). Many Wikipedians are elitists at the highest level who have to get rid of anything they don't like. Yes, to make my point valid, I should have links like this: (the fact he decided to upload it himself means nothing, it still happened.) I'll admit. I haven't read all of the guidelines (never planned to be number 1 contributor, just a little here and there), but this is a bit ridiculous. --Kris18 (talk) 20:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Read all the guidelines? I make it a point to avoid them. However, I know that we went ahead and defined "notability" because it was an endless, pointless, directionless argument before, and having objective criteria is helpful. Do you think not? Should we scrap the verifiability policy, and the policy that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information? Where would you draw the line? -GTBacchus(talk) 20:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Delete Subject fails all conceivably relevant inclusion criteria: WP:N, WP:ANYBIO, WP:ENTERTAINER, WP:CREATIVE, WP:WEB. As of now, no one opining "keep" has cited any policy or guideline upon which their opinion is based. L0b0t (talk) 23:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep I think this article does meet the notability guideline. There is nothing in the notability guideline that prevent significant coverage in two reliable sources from establishing notability and I think the two articles and  in the article now do this (eight months apart so not a single event coverage. This coverage has also been picked up elsewhere. His win in the Youtube awards also gets coverage including internationally. The article certainly needs cleaning up to remove a lot of original research but I think there is just enough here to write an article and meet the notability guideline. Davewild (talk) 16:13, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Darrenhusted, the editor who nominated the article for deletion, made this edit to the article, where he erased references from The Washington Post, MSNBC, Fox News, the St. Petersburg Times, and the Canadian CBC News. I don't think it's a good idea for the person who nominated the article for deletion to remove references in an attempt to make it look as if the subject of the article is not notable. Grundle2600 (talk) 23:19, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep: I knew who this was already, but wasn't 100% on notability until seeing that sufficient press coverage does exist.  --Milowent (talk) 05:07, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - coverage in multiple reliable sources establish notability -- Whpq (talk) 13:11, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.