Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dan Miller (sportscaster)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep per WP:SNOW, WP:HEY. Discussion was open for 5 days. Bearian (talk) 17:31, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Dan Miller (sportscaster)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Non-notable local news/sports presenter. Mikeblas (talk) 20:27, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  -- — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  22:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions.  -- — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  22:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * VERY STRONG KEEP: He can be heard on 36 radio stations in Michigan, Ohio and Canada during Lions games and is watched in hundreds of thousands of homes on daily basis on WJBK (Michigan's highest powered FOX affiliate). He is also the host of a sports talk TV show, (the ONLY of its kind in Michigan). How aren't any of these facts "notable enough" in your mind? The millions of people who listen to him every week on Lions games and watch him every single day on TV in Detroit and Southeastern Michigan (the largest media market in Michigan mind you) would probably disagree with your un-notability claim, so would The Detroit Free Press (one of Michigan's largest and most widely read newspapers, if not #1) who gave him the "best local TV sportscaster award" in 2004. Notability is simply a matter of opinion (yours in this case, and so far, no one else's) and NOT a matter of fact. However, the fact of the matter is that the article is completely factual and well sourced. Saying a person isn't notable in my mind is a violation of WP:BLP. TomCat4680 (talk) 17:29, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Saying that someone isn't notable is not a violation of WP:BLP. Although editors will disagree on what constitutes notability, statements like "notability is simply a matter of opinion" suggest that you are unfamiliar with the guidelines. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep: He is notable, he might be local, but notable in Michigan. After doing light searching, I noticed there are other articles of Sportscasters around the U.S. that are notable to their regions as well.  Quistisffviii (talk) 20:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. "Other stuff exists" isn't a viable reason for keeping an article. Local notability isn't notable enough for Wikipedia. -- Mikeblas (talk) 17:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep - I've checked out the article and it appears to be written well enough. As there is no notability criteria specifically for announcers/newscasters the only thing I can go off of is the general guideline for notability (received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject).  As of right now, the article only has references that go to non-independent sources.  I did a little searching for news sources that show significant coverage but it's hard as he's often referenced but mostly for quotes which are taken by another writer.  I haven't been around for a long time but I see a trend in notability discussion on news casters and news writers for the same reasons.  I guess I would have to go with common sense (more gut more specifically) with this article and say that the subject is notable as I believe that any sports announcer/commenter of a major professional team (their main announcer) is inherently notable.  If I had to pin a specific notability guideline on the subject, I would have to say point 1 of Notability_(people) (person has received a notable award or honor, or has been often nominated for them) for the Detroit Free Press award or point 1 of WP:CREATIVE (person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by their peers or successors).  Ol Yeller  '''Talktome 02:09, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep with no disrespects to the nom, but WP:BEFORE might have indicated the notability you missed and others easily found.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 03:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Notable local sportscaster in Michigan and Ohio area does not translate into notable in Wikipedia. There appears to be no significant news coverage of him, although there are several passing mentions. Fails WP:NOTABILITY. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:12, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - He's not local he's national via XM and Sirius Satellite Radio. Also all games can be listened to at WXYT-FM's website worldwide. He's also won awards in his field by his peers so is therefore respected and well liked and well known.TomCat4680 (talk) 17:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep TomCat4680 mentioned how large an audience he has. The opinions of hundreds of thousands of people, who believe the guy notable enough to listen in, are far more important than the opinion of a single reviewer in a major newspaper or magazine.  He is notable for the same reasons bestselling novels are.  Plenty of fans, means you don't need any third party reviews to prove you are notable.   D r e a m Focus  20:35, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

nb: TomCat canvased the ARS@WT:ARS Cheers, Jack Merridew 15:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Close request: Admin please close per WP:SNOW. Article has been substantially expanded since afd 5 days ago. I count 5 keeps to 1 delete (other than nominator's) at this point. TomCat4680 (talk) 21:57, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete — Mike's right; writes a mean class library, too. Local-notability? We'll have dog catchers in here, next. Nice that Dan has a dog :)
 * Comment: "Mike's" right? You know his real name? Really, you told your friends to come and vote your way "Mike"? Good job, maybe next we'll see your mom... TomCat4680 (talk) 16:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Third snowball close request. Why is this debate still open? Its been asked that it be closed to WP:SNOW 3 times now. There are 6 keeps and only 3 deletes in the 5 days its been open. and TomCat4680 (talk) 16:21, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep Some notability. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:23, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.