Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dario Bisso Sabàdin


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was moved to Draft:Dario Bisso Sabàdin. There is no consensus either way, but the argument against deletion is premised on future improvements to be made to the article, which can remain in draft until the issues raised as a basis for deletion are resolved. BD2412 T 18:05, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Dario Bisso Sabàdin

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This article is (and I believe always has been) unsourced, and I have failed to find any suitable online sources to use to improve it; hence I do not think that it passes the general notability guideline. The best two pages I have found in a normal Google search are:


 * This biography (in Italian). At the bottom of the text it is annotated Fonte diretta, which I take to mean that it was contributed by the article subject.
 * This biography (pdf), from a (probably non-notable) musical competition, which I also suspect was self-authored.

There are no Google books hits, two passing mentions on Google news, one citation on Google scholar. According to the article Bisso Sabàdin's conducting career began in 1998 so there might be offline sources that I am missing. I didn't gain much assistance from WP:NMUSIC, which doesn't have much to say about conductors.

The article bears a strong similarity to the two documents that I link to above, which may indicate that the (effectively sole) author, User:Fedetx, may have a close relationship with the article subject. Fedetx has twice removed the notability maintenance template from the article without comment; hence me bringing it here for further discussion. Wham2001 (talk) 13:58, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Wham2001 (talk) 13:58, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Wham2001 (talk) 13:58, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Wham2001 (talk) 13:58, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Note to closer: User:Tramarin has provided input at the AfD talk page. I advised them to move their comments here but they have not edited since and may not have seen my message. Wham2001 (talk) 12:36, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Note to closer: I am User:Tramarin. As Wham2001 (talk) stated, I provided some input at the AfD talk page. In particular, I asked for more time to edit the page of Dario Bisso, since in these days I am pretty busy with teaching. I know I have been advised to move my comments here, but time constraints impeded me to do so, and only two days have passed. I strongly believe in Wikipedia's project, but editors have to understand that sometimes people who write pages may have to do that in their spare time, and stating "they may not have seen my message" only after two days is, in my opinion, a bad policy to maintain pages, especially since I expressed my willingness to edit a page for someone else. Anyway, I am collecting the needed sources. If Wikipedia may wait for some days to let me edit, this will be perfect. Tramarin (talk) 13:44, 29 March 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – bradv  🍁  17:23, 29 March 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee //  have a ☕️ //  beans  // 06:38, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Dear all, I collected some materials and references to support the claims contained in the Dario Bisso Sabàdin page. I would provide some argumentation against the deletion of the page. Another point against its deletion on the basis of a scarce notability is also the presence of the conductor's works in Spotify, which indicates an active career and an international reputation. So, I wish to thank to Wham2001 for highlighting the issues. I am, slowly, updating the page. I am not involved in the activities of Dario Bisso Sabàdin and I am doing this during my spare time, in between University classes, which are going full online due to this Covid-19 situation. I hope you may understand the page will get better soon, but not immediately. Thank you for your attention. – Tramarin (talk) 14:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) "...from a (probably non-notable) musical competition, which I also suspect was self-authored." -> No, that musical competition is not "non-notable". It may be not widely known, or not known to the Editor, because of the specific genre of music and its peculiarities, but it is an International Competition, recurring each year in the past 20 years. It is sufficient to look at the page dedicated to past winners (http://www.valtidone-competitions.com/eng/competitions_en/ic_winners.asp) to understand that participants comes from all around the world.
 * 2) "...There are no Google books hits, two passing mentions on Google news, one citation on Google scholar.  According to the article Bisso Sabàdin's conducting career began in 1998 so there might be offline sources that I am missing." Yes actually there are rather several sources one can cite, from press news to hits on archives of the events the page claims.


 * , thank-you for your work on the article. Unfortunately I am not yet convinced that it demonstrates that Dario Bisso Sabàdin passes the general notability guideline.  To quote that page, If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list..  Whilst you have added a number of sources, all but one of them are passing mentions in programmes of concerts, etc.  The best source I see amongst the set is this interview.  My view is that it is a primary rather than secondary source and hence does not contribute to notability, but this point could perhaps be argued.


 * Regarding your other numbered points:
 * I did not find much coverage of the competition, mostly passing mentions in the context of more notable winners, hence my concluding that it was probably non-notable, but I did not look very closely. I see from this document that DBS acted as a juror for the competition a few years ago.  That perhaps supports notability, though not particularly strongly.
 * What is needed are sources that provide significant coverage of DBS himself, not passing mentions in press releases, concert programmes etc. That is why I discounted those sources when doing the pre-nomination search for sources.


 * Finally, I am sympathetic regarding COVID-induced time constraints, and indeed I will have very little time for Wikipedia myself over the next few days. I suggest that, if the discussion closes with a consensus to delete the page, that the closer considers converting it to a draft, so that you can continue to work on it and make a stronger case for notability.  It is very unfortunate that no editors with extensive experience of Wikipedia musical biographies have contributed to this discussion, but there are still a few days before it is due to close.  Best, Wham2001 (talk) 12:28, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

, I do not agree with your claims and inferences about DBS notability. I have gone through the general notability guideline, too, and also through the notability criteria for musicians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(music)). It is my opinion that points 1 and 2 are relevant to the activities of DBS for supporting his notability. Indeed, The references to support these claims have been already provided in the DBS page, but in case it may better support my argumentations to support his notability, I will be happy to add them here.
 * he has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself. -> This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries...
 * Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.
 * Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels.

Moreover, being a component of the jury of an international competition, relevant to the specific field of art (please, take into account that the competition has not to be widespread to the general public, as per Wikipedia guidelines) is a proof of notability. There are also other sources that are not only passing mentions, as for instance http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/il-ministro-della-cultura-dell-estonia-in-visita-al-conservatorio-di-musica-di-venezia-3321773.html, or

I would like also to underline that the claim "[...] no editors with extensive experience of Wikipedia musical biographies have contributed to this discussion" is itself a proof that the argumentations about deletion are not really solid, mostly because in the current situation, we may assist at a page deletion on the basis of the decision of a single editor, which in turn has already declared to not be an expert in the field.

I will provide more sources after the Easter holidays. Thank you for your help and suggestions. Tramarin (talk) 16:41, 11 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.