Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dark rock


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Keilana | Parlez ici 00:05, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Dark rock

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Fails WP:GNG. It's far too a general term to be worthy of an article. We have no reliable sources discussing this subgenre in detail, simply a handful of bands claiming it as a label as they don't won't to be tarred with anything else (we had exactly the same discussion at dark metal, which is repeatedly deleted). Without significant, thrid-party coverage discussing this as a separate subgenre, i.e. not interviews with bands describing themselves as such, this lacks even the faintest shred of notability. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:02, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, no evidence that there is a true definition of a genre here. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep Article was blanked before nomination. Dark Rock is much discussed in Germany and Finland, please check German sources.  Zillo magazine has had any number of discussions of dark rock.  Unfortunately, I have no online source for them at the current time.    Th e S te ve   20:41, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment as nom, page wasn't blanked. Unsourced content was removed, specifically including content that would have to be removed were the page to be saved from AfD. Redlinked bands will go, as will content from bands describing their music as "dark rock" if the subgenre itself is not established. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:52, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Further comment as nom. try googling "dark rock". Try distinguishing between what is being claimed as a legitimate subgenre and a the generic term for "rock" that is also somewhat "dark". This for instance. Why have the editors not sought to include the Velvet Underground and Joy Division? They are both certainly "dark" and "rock". Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It may use the term "dark rock", but it doesn't specify on what constitutes dark rock. The phrase itself is in use in various sources, but none give definition as to what makes it "dark". Therefore, it is not a de facto genre. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 22:58, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 23:58, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Comment Hey, The Encyclopedia of Heavy Metal says its a genre, it must be true. ;)  Th e S te ve   05:25, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not an established sub-genre. Essentially a non-notable neologism. Carrite (talk)
 * Comment Can we have a direct quote from it then please? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 08:47, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I added the direct quote to the Dark Rock article yesterday, as you requested on the talk page. Here it is: "Their more recent work minimizes their connection to metal and has at times become almost straight goth - the band members nowadays refer to their music simply as dark rock.  Still, the influence they had on other bands in their original genre was profound enough for them to retain a sizable portion of their fan base."
 * Comment That's interesting. This has been deleted before, without anyone mentioning it. I can't see the previous version, but the ref to Nick Holmes once describing Paradise Lost as dark rock suggests that the two versions of the article may be substantially similar. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 09:11, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment Dark Rock at Zillo music magazine. Dark Rock at Sonic Seducer.  Dark Rock at Orkus (Tagline: Das Magazin für Dark Rock - Electro - Gothic - Dark Metal & more). Ok, the tagline causes the Orkus search to fail :(   Th e S te ve   05:11, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment None of those discusses the genre in detail, per WP:GNG. We need substantial coverage on the genre itself, otherwise (much like "melodic black metal" or "brutal death metal") it is not clear that the word "dark" is not simply being used as a descriptor of music that is considered "dark". 11:33, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I have added sources discussing the specific genre of dark rock (Note: not in-depth sources) to the page, and, for Blackmetalbaz, I have included the relevant quotes ("Die finnische Band um den charismatischen Sänger Ville Valo haben sich seit 1995 dem interessanten Genre "Dark Rock" verschrieben."). From these, I think it is clear that dark rock is widely considered a genre, especially in Germany.   Th e S te ve   01:25, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ‑Scottywong | chat _ 18:12, 9 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - whether something is a genre or just called 'dark rock' is not a matter for AfD; it can be sorted out through normal editing processes. Plenty of good sources exist per WP:GNG. Bearian (talk) 11:59, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. This is notable and I am sure Thesteve can improve the article. --217 /83 19:41, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.