Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Darrin McGillis


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. &mdash; Scientizzle 19:22, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Darrin McGillis

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Does not meet the general notability guidelines. Certainly fails to meet WP:POLITICIAN Lincolnite (talk) 08:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom - possible merge to election article. GregJackP (talk) 13:31, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - notable concert promoter, owner of notable record company and notable political activist, plenty of news sources can be found, see, MTV, Yahoo Music, ITUNES, Billboard Magazine, Countless other news clips on his record label see, News Clips, His concert tours included James Brown, Rapper Producer Dr. Dre, Menudo, Expose, The Jets and many others, see, Concert Tours, he has also embargoed a Menudo concert in San Juan Puerto Rico San Juan Star Newspaper, in Politics he received over 39,000 votes in the 2008 Clerk of the Circuit Court Race in Miami Florida, he sued the Elections Department when they placed his name incorrectly on the ballot see, Lawsuit, he was the only candidate to take a stand for Gay Marriage in the Florida Governors race and said so in the South Florida Gay Newspaper, and recently in the Miami Herald called out Alex Sink the lead candidate for Governor for being against Gay Marriage on religios grounds Miami Herald June 16 2010 it's clear that Mr. McGillis is notable Concert Promoter, Record Label Executive and Gay Rights Political Activist. Please do not use Wikipedia as a playground to voice opposition to political candidates who oppose your views or whom you do not like, do that at the polls.  This nomination appears to have been sparked by a Alex Sink supporter as it comes immediately after the Miami Herald article came out and this is improper. A simple Google search of Darrin McGillis shows he is more notable than what wikipedia requires and this nomination seems to be just a political move by those who do not like Mr. McGillis stand and views on Gay Marriage and Gay Rights.--98.242.241.252 (talk) 14:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: As the person who proposed this article for deletion, let me just reply to the charge that "This nomination appears to have been sparked by a Alex Sink supporter". Having never been to Florida and living over 4,000 miles away, I can assure you that I have no opinion whatsoever on who should be elected Governor of Florida. In fact, I had only faintly heard of Alex Sink prior to this discussion. --Lincolnite (talk) 14:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - Strong KEEP very notable Google Search Results Leave No Doubt. I also adopt the sourced links above for keeping.--Dymo400 (talk) 17:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Repeat what was said above: *Keep - notable concert promoter, owner of notable record company and notable political activist, plenty of news sources can be found, see, MTV, Yahoo Music, ITUNES, Billboard Magazine, Countless other news clips on his record label see, News Clips, His concert tours included James Brown, Rapper Producer Dr. Dre, Menudo, Expose, The Jets and many others, see, Concert Tours, he has also embargoed a Menudo concert in San Juan Puerto Rico San Juan Star Newspaper, in Politics he received over 39,000 votes in the 2008 Clerk of the Circuit Court Race in Miami Florida, he sued the Elections Department when they placed his name incorrectly on the ballot see, Lawsuit, he was the only candidate to take a stand for Gay Marriage in the Florida Governors race and said so in the South Florida Gay Newspaper, and recently in the Miami Herald called out Alex Sink the lead candidate for Governor for being against Gay Marriage on religios grounds Miami Herald June 16 2010 it's clear that Mr. McGillis is notable Concert Promoter, Record Label Executive and Gay Rights Political Activist. Please do not use Wikipedia as a playground to voice opposition to political candidates who oppose your views or whom you do not like, do that at the polls.  This nomination appears to have been sparked by a Alex Sink supporter as it comes immediately after the Miami Herald article came out and this is improper. A simple Google search of Darrin McGillis shows he is more notable than what wikipedia requires and this nomination seems to be just a political move by those who do not like Mr. McGillis stand and views on Gay Marriage and Gay Rights--Dymo400 (talk) 05:48, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - I was asked to come back and re-look at the article based on new sources that have been found. Based on the above post, there are exactly two usuable sources listed - the Miami Herald article and the South Florida Gay article.  The Herald states in the article that you've probably never heard of him - hardly a ringing endorsement for notability.  None of the rest have anything to do with McGillis, they are about Menudo.  Additionally, based on the above sources, additional information would have to be added to the article.  This would include the large number of lawsuits, the felony arrest for fraud, accusations of sexual harassment made by a Menudo member, accusations of violence, etc.  I don't have a problem with working that up for y'all, but is that what you really want?  You might want to read up on the WP:BLP policy - negative information is included if it is properly sourced, and one cannot use Wikipedia for self-promotion.  You might be better off if the article is deleted.  Regards, GregJackP (talk) 20:57, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * To clarify my above comment, the Miami Herald source noted above stated:
 * "According to a Miami Herald story during the 2008 campaign: He was arrested on organized fraud charges in 1999 and had the charges dismissed as part of a plea deal that required him to pay restitution of more than $22,000. He has been sued twice by acquaintances who accused him of repeat violence, cases he claims were motivated by money. He has sued eight different people and organizations in Miami-Dade, while a member of Menudo sued him claiming sexual harassment in Puerto Rico but later retracted the claim. McGillis also has been sanctioned by the Third District Court of Appeal for filing frivolous and repetitive briefs."
 * Any of that material can be added to the article, because a reliable source has published it already. I'll ask again, do you really want to keep the article?  Because if it is kept, it has to be balanced, with both the good and the bad.  If I were intending to just denigrate him, I would have just added the material to the article and sourced it - and it would have been kept in the article.  I am trying to get you to think of what is best for him - does he really want a Wikipedia article with everything that is significant (bad and good) out there permanently?  Finally, it is not proper to remove other's comments from an AfD discussion.  GregJackP (talk) 02:09, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I got to say that leaving that comment even with the quote "... but later retracted the claim." is a shame on your part. I have asked for assistance with the dispute as going after someone you do not know with such malice is truly wrong. I hope you reconsider your actions.--Dymo400 (talk) 02:55, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Validity of sources is of paramount importance in considering the essential question of notability, and particularly in a biography, which is what this discussion should be about. But this discussion should be about the basics rather than the details, and editors should focus on the general notability of the subject, ad I have no view on that. Rodhull  andemu  03:00, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Under that view the entire Blog should be quoted "Ex-Menudo promoter rips Sink for opposing gay marriage: Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink, the leading Democratic contender for governor, recently told The St. Petersburg Times: "I don't support gay marriage. I think that is entirely a religious decision that individuals can make. I do support civil unions." That statement led Darrin McGillis, who is among about two dozen gubernatorial candidates you've probably never heard of, to label Sink a "bigot" in a press release. "Ask yourself - Is using religious teachings to deny equal rights to gay people any less wrong than using religious teachings to discriminate against people of color or against people of different cultures wanting to marry?" he asked. Who is this guy?" --Dymo400 (talk) 03:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Dymo400: the blog you refer to is a not a personal blog but a newspaper blog maintained by the journalistic staff of Miami Herald, see its description at. The difference is clearly explained in WP:NEWSBLOG: ""Some newspapers host interactive columns that they call blogs; these are acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control." Thus the blog post in question actually satisfies the WP:V requirements. Nsk92 (talk) 03:19, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It may be the case I just do not like watching anyone who is clueless that this discussion is taking place with no way of defending themselfs, I mean read the quote it's not from his opposition it is from the reporter who appears to have had a bias just by the fact of stating someone says he did something but later said he lied. C'mon repeating such disgusting comments is unfair to any human being. Had he not been a controversial candidate for Governor would we even be having this conversation "NO". I would never do this to anyone and I always think others are like me, but I guess I am wrong- FYI did you see this McGillis Personal Tragedy.--Dymo400 (talk) 03:31, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. Falls far short of passing WP:POLITICIAN. GoogleNews results are fairly slight. Plus significant potential BLP issues. Nsk92 (talk) 02:16, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. This person is not the actual subject of any non-trivial coverage. Remember, notability is not inherited by one subject from another. Please see WP:NOTINHERITED, which specifically states, "Similarly, parent notability should be established independently; notability is not inherited 'up', from notable subordinate to parent, either: not every manufacturer of a notable product is itself notable." — Satori Son 04:56, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per Satori Son. Being around notable people doesn't make one notable. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:34, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I think these links tell a different story? - *Keep - notable concert promoter, owner of notable record company and notable political activist, plenty of news sources can be found, see, MTV, Yahoo Music, ITUNES, Billboard Magazine, Countless other news clips on his record label see, News Clips, His concert tours included James Brown, Rapper Producer Dr. Dre, Menudo, Expose, The Jets and many others, see, Concert Tours, he has also embargoed a Menudo concert in San Juan Puerto Rico San Juan Star Newspaper, in Politics he received over 39,000 votes in the 2008 Clerk of the Circuit Court Race in Miami Florida, he sued the Elections Department when they placed his name incorrectly on the ballot see, Lawsuit, he was the only candidate to take a stand for Gay Marriage in the Florida Governors race and said so in the South Florida Gay Newspaper, and recently in the Miami Herald called out Alex Sink the lead candidate for Governor for being against Gay Marriage on religios grounds Miami Herald June 16 2010 it's clear that Mr. McGillis is notable Concert Promoter, Record Label Executive and Gay Rights Political Activist. Please do not use Wikipedia as a playground to voice opposition to political candidates who oppose your views or whom you do not like, do that at the polls.  This nomination appears to have been sparked by a Alex Sink supporter as it comes immediately after the Miami Herald article came out and this is improper. A simple Google search of Darrin McGillis shows he is more notable than what wikipedia requires and this nomination seems to be just a political move by those who do not like Mr. McGillis stand and views on Gay Marriage and Gay Rights.--Dymo400 (talk) 05:49, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

*Keep Article can use more expansion, especially covering his political campaigns and his business ventures. Make it sound less like a commercial/political ad and more like a well-researched Wikipedia entry.--XLR8TION (talk) 07:10, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You should have disclosed that you have been canvassed by Dymo400 to participate in this AfD. Nsk92 (talk) 09:07, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Note. Dymo400 has been engaged in canvassing in relation to this AfD: . Future participants in this AfD: when !voting, please disclose if you have been canvassed by anyone to comment here. Nsk92 (talk) 09:22, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note. Because I was not the sole creator of the Darrin McGillis page I felt that those who participated in the final creation of the page should be notified of the Afd why I was the only one notified I have no clue. I simply provided the following message identical on each alerting them of the Afd and nothing else: "Way back when we both created the Darrin McGillis page and now due to politics the page is on its way to being deleted. Why dont you chime in if you have a minute. Thanks" I wish we could get away from this fifth grader back and forth and want appears to be mean conduct towards my person I feel like a punching bag and I am not. To those who voted Keep I agree with you.--Dymo400 (talk) 13:02, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Your messages expressly violated WP:CANVASSING which states: "Campaigning is an attempt to sway the person reading the message, conveyed through the use of tone, wording, or intent. While this may be appropriate as part of a specific individual discussion, it is inappropriate to canvass with such messages". Leaving a message that "now due to politics the page is on its way to being deleted" is clearly indicative of your opinion that you think the article should be kept and, moreover, suggests bad faith motives by those advocating deletion. Regarding "why I was the only one notified I have no clue": Read the instructions at WP:AFD. The customary practice is for the AfD nominator to notify the person who created the original version of the article (in this case you). Nsk92 (talk) 13:12, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not know why you are being so abrasive towards me in your tone. I have been nothing but courtesous towards you in all my writings, please disclose if you have any bias towards the subject of this Afd and his views on Gay Marriage or any. The tone you have expressed concerns me greatly. I hope you have a great week.--Dymo400 (talk) 13:25, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, please. I have not been abrasive to you, but I did feel the need to point out an obvious violation of WP:CANVASSING on your part. You have also engaged in repeated WP:NPA and WP:AGF violations by implying that the proponents of deletion are motivated by personal bias or political considerations or by some sort of connection with the campaign of the subject's political opponents. It was pointed out to you at Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard that such accusations are inappropriate and without basis. The AfD nominator and the other delete !voters in this AfD have long and varied editing histories totally unrelated to the AfD's subject. On the other hand, a review of your contrib record shows that a large proportion (possibly the majority) of your contributions have been related to this article. Speaking about disclosures, if you have any connection to the subject's political campaign, you must disclose it here, per WP:COI. Nsk92 (talk) 13:47, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

":I was going to post on the AfD, but this is probably better. First, for the sorts of claims that your describing, I'd be hard pressed to see a blog - even a newspaper's one - being sufficiently reliable to be used to support the claims of fraud and violence that you point to. Strong claims need strong sources. More importantly, though, I'm uncomfortable with the argument that you're making in the AfD that if the article is kept strongly negative material will need to be added. That's not a given, and it has a rather nasty appearance in terms of the debate. With respect, I think it might be better to stay clear of that sort of argument, and just focus on whether or not the subject is notable. - Bilby (talk) 12:26, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The following trend appears on GregJackP (Talk) page and should placed here for review as it points to a interesting view point on the Afd subject:
 * If the material is germane and he is a public figure, it should be included. I have a problem with Wikipedia being used strictly for promotional purposed, paint the article rosy and bright, and sweeping negative information under the rug.  It needs to be balanced - but the blog also stated that it was reported in the print newspaper, and I would probably try to find that ref and use it instead.  I agree that refs on negative material be impeccable, and that we don't want to go to far the other way either.  Regards, GregJackP (talk) 12:43, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The problem is that if those sources exist, then he is likely to be notable. If they don't, they won't be included. Either way it shouldn't really help in an AfD - it feels wrong, as the point is to make NPOV articles, so arguing that negative material will be added comes across in the wrong light as it is both largely redundant and potentially threatening, and at best it points to a keep vote. I gather he's pulled out of the race, though, so this is likely to be a non-issue in the end. - Bilby (talk) 12:57, 22 June 2010 (UTC)"

End of trend on GregJackP (Talk) page --Dymo400 (talk) 13:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak delete due to the sparsity of third-party reliable sources. ╟─ Treasury Tag ►  sundries  ─╢ 14:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * delete fails WP:BIo. --Cameron Scott (talk) 14:15, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as nominated. Almost no coverage of this individual, fails WP:Politician and general WP:BIO.  Likely written by someone with a WP:COI as a promotional piece. Toddst1 (talk) 14:29, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete, music label notability claims are WP:ONEEVENT and covered at Menudo (band), political aspects are a marginal fail of WP:CRYSTAL at this time. S.G.(GH) ping! 14:34, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as not enough coverage in reliable sources to show notability. Quantpole (talk) 14:35, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:BIO and WP:POLITICIAN. In fact, the only current article I could find mentioning him on Google News indicates he has declined to run for Governor. AniMate  14:41, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:BIO, WP:POLITICIAN, and WP:MUSICBIO. What coverage exists in independent reliable sources is not significant. I would be OK with a redirect to Menudo (band), but there still isn't a vast amount to say about him there. Location (talk) 15:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - simply not yet notable. If he wins an election, sure, but as is this could easily become a BLP problem due to negative material which is available. Yworo (talk) 16:16, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Not that many voices out there for Gay rights and it is a shame that someone who is for equal rights of all people is getting his name smeared. I hope you all read this article South Florida Gay Newspaper --Dymo400 (talk) 18:00, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. I too have been contacted by Dymo400 and have just added a reliably sourced bit about McGillis' withdrawal from the elections for Governor. That said, I think the article can by improved but is currently quite weak. De728631 (talk) 18:56, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, having run through the sources he fails the bar, however if he wins then re-create without prejudice. Darrenhusted (talk) 21:04, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete for now. What we have at the moment in an unsourced section about a record label and a failed political campaign, with only two reliable sources covering the guy. That's just not enough for WP:GNG or WP:POLITICIAN. Recreation if he becomes notable in the future would not be a problem. Alzarian16 (talk) 17:36, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.