Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dauros


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Consensus indicates the topic is not sufficiently notable for inclusion. Arguments that focus on in-universe significance are not convincing. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 17:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Dauros

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

This character doesn't assert notability and the content is extremely trivial. TTN (talk) 19:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions.  -- TTN (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I think just about every single Transformers article should be deleted, the entries reduced to simple bulleted list items -- rather than assume all these figures warrant articles (most of them don't), axe the stuff there now, and re-create individual articles only when substantiated with meaningful development and/or sales/popularity established. --EEMIV (talk) 19:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't this an extreme point of view? to delete "every single Transformers article?" Mathewignash (talk) 14:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The character is not made up per images, i.e. we can actually see it, so no reason why not to redirect at worst, because obviously some of our colleagues find it a valid search term and we should be considerate to them. Part of an astonishingly notable franchise. No reason at all to outright delete.  Best, --A NobodyMy talk 19:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Per the information contained in the article, it seems like it might be most appropriate to merge the content to the other character on which the toy is based. Transformers is a major franchise, and precedent suggests that lists of less notable characters be merged appropriately. Jclemens (talk) 20:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If you did merge, it would make more sense to merge it with the article on the particular TV series the character appeared on, rather than a broad list of characters. Transformers is a set of dozens of TV series, comic books and thousands of toys. You wouldn't merge a page on Aerial from the Little Mermaid with a article on Walt Disney as much as you might merge her back to the page on the film she appear in. Mathewignash (talk) 00:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm with nom/EEMIV on this. Aggressively trivial & fancrufty topic that has no demonstrable notability whatsoever. Eusebeus (talk) 21:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep, He wasn't just a toy, he was a reoccuring villian in a popular Japanese TV series. Info on it is hard to find on English web pages, as it was never imported to any English speaking countries. Also, there are variants on the spelling of the name. There are pleanty of articles that come up as linking to Dauros, and Dauros on a goodle image search does come up with dozens of pictures of this character. If you can't keep it I say merge the relivant info from the page into a slightly broader page, like the one for the Masterforce TV series, where he was the villian, rather than a extremely broad Transformers page. Since it was only a stubby little article, I did just add some more details and references to it. Hope this helps. Mathewignash (talk) 22:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Looking over the sources in the article, I do not see any that comes close to be considered reliable. Fansitse, wikis, and most other self-published sites can not be used as sources, much else establish notability. And fictional elements, such as characters, are not immune from the notability guidelines either, at least until additional criteria are established at the currently defunct WP:FICT. The number of GHits is irrelevant to the issue of notability. Also note that Mathewignash has posted notices at WT:ANIME, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Toys, and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Transformers. —Farix (t &#124; c) 01:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Is posting a comment in a project about a character getting proposed for deletion incorrect? If so I apologize. Please let me know. Mathewignash (talk) 01:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Some editors view it as canvasing. Best to leave a notice in the affected discussion when notices about an issue are posted elsewhere. --—Farix (t &#124; c) 01:47, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it is not incorrect. The more editors who participate, the better and especially if you bring in more experts on the subject under discussion.  Best, --A NobodyMy talk 02:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As long as posting notices is aimed at generating discussion rather than votestacking, it is fine. However, the frequency of the latter is far higher than the frequency of the former. Stifle (talk) 08:14, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I admit to wanting to save an article, but by making it better and getting more people involved in working on it. I don't think there is a crime there. I also thingk project that involve an article would want to know before an article is deleted, so this is strictly informative for them. I don't contact people specifically and say "save this article", but I did contact a couple projects and told them to voice their opinions (yes, I'm hoping they are for saving the article by making it more acceptable as a wikipedia page.) Mathewignash (talk) 14:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As for notability of the sources, this is a Japanese anime character, you won't find him mentioned often in the New York Times. Most sources would be in Japanese. I did source several english speaking news oriented pages, some of which are professional news coverage sites, if specialized in collecting toys or covering anime. For instance the Geocities page is a translation of official Takara press releases. You can't cite the Japanese, we only have the translation. Mathewignash (talk) 01:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Then find the sources. We don't presume they exists. Press releases should be cited directly and not through some non-professional translation, but it still doesn't not prove notability. —Farix (t &#124; c) 01:47, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. --KrebMarkt 06:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete and redirect to an appropriate list article. No real-world notability to speak of. Stifle (talk) 08:14, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep In the Transformers: Super-God Masterforce series Dauros is one of the three Decepticon Pretenders who make up the main villians of the series. [4]  A notable character, in a notable series.   D r e a m Focus  19:01, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: Isn't your argument more than a bit from an in-universe perspective? --KrebMarkt 20:36, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * He was was a villian who appeared all through the series from beginning to end. I'm not sure if there are even any episode WITHOUT him. Saying he was a main character is like saying Lex Luthor is a main character in Smallville. It's not a stretch. Mathewignash (talk) 23:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Being a main character is not the same as being a notable character. —Farix (t &#124; c) 23:37, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't believe you can be a main character in a notable series, without being notable yourself. Could an actor who played a significant role in a notable film, not be notable himself, but the film he was in was?  Their actions are what makes the show.   D r e a m Focus  16:09, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No, not every main character deserves their own article. A good example is this article about the most beloved book Jane Eyre. Of all the famous characters in this book, only Jane has her own article - Rochester is just a redirect. - Josette (talk) 18:06, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete this article. This character deserves mention but not enough for an article of it's own - plus none of the references are acceptable. - Josette (talk) 03:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * While there is clearly no reason to delete this article concerning a real-world notable character as confirmed by acceptable references, a merge and redirect is not completely unreasonable; however, Mathewignash is the clear expert in this discussion and is working hard and as such deserves more time to continue improving an articles concerning a notable and verifiable subject for which no serious reason (WP:ITSCRUFT is not a reason) exists for deleting the edit history. Bravo to Mathewignash for his efforts!  That is exactly why we are here and what we like see.  Keep up the good work!  Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 13:32, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete minor character, no out-of-universe notability as required by our guidelines on writing about fiction.  Them From  Space  16:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * User:Mathewignash has proven the opposite, i.e. it pass WP:WAF due to out of universe notability concerning this notable character who at worst can be redirected in that there is no need whatsover to delete, nor any actual reason. Best, --A NobodyMy talk 18:32, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - no, a fan wiki is not a reliable source; neither is a GeoCities fan page, a picture posted on a blog, or a forum post. Mathewignash, after 3 and a half years on Wikipedia, it's high time you read WP:RS and WP:SPS, and applied those policies in practice. - Biruitorul Talk 01:14, 12 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - I agree with some of the comments that most of those types of articles should be merged to series lists. --Cameron Scott (talk) 09:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep well written article, references that establish notability for this fictional character.--Judo112 (talk) 13:01, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Which ones? How? --Cameron Scott (talk) 13:02, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment I just requested several books from my local library system which are guides to japanese anime and Transformers, etc. I plan on going over them and citing references etc. If anyone can help me with a guide to writing a fully detailed citation of a book, please point me to it. Mathewignash (talk) 14:22, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Template:Cite book - Josette (talk) 14:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Lovely! Thanks! I have several other anime guides, but the one that covers Masterforce in detail is at a library in another city. I checked and they will send it to my library. Better than paying $30 for it at Amazom.com. So soon I will try to get some better references that may keep some people happy. I'm also looking to the guidelines to writing pages that are less "in universe" and looking at other pages that are considered well-written as examples of writing style. With any luck we can make this page more pleasing to the wikipedian eyes. Mathewignash (talk) 18:07, 12 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge to Transformers: Super-God Masterforce; completely unnotable for having own article, but cleaned up to remove the inappropriate links marquerading as sources, and shortened the plot, it would be appropriate to have a brief 1-3 sentence summary in the main article of the series where he was relevant. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 04:27, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. -- Hiding T 21:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.