Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Barnes (producer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 18:17, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

David Barnes (producer)

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Asserts notability as a producer, but I can't find any biographical sources. It's entirely possible for a producer to work with notable artist but not be notable himself — there is literally NO biographical info to be found anywhere, and I've searched high and low with various keywords. "David Barnes" + "Conway Twitty" turned up only Barnes' name being listed in directories. "David Barnes" + "Nat Stuckey" turned up no results, as did "David Barnes" + "Margo Smith". There is NOTHING on this guy. Notability is WP:NOTINHERITED, so if you say "keep, he worked with notable singers", I'll have to trout some sense into you.

Also it should be noted that the article is currently sourced entirely to blogs and commercial listings for albums, and a user created the article, so there is very high COI. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 02:57, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ETA: The article was also created out of process, as the user moved it from AFC to article space even after it was declined at AFC. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 03:43, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  —Tom Morris (talk) 04:32, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

In reference to the above, I am user Davbarne, and in regards to the COI, I am related to the producer and am responsible for monitoring references to him on the web including Youtube, Wikipedia, ASCAP.com, Billboard, etc. I created the article because I found his name referenced in literally dozens of wikipedia articles for producing, arranging, and recording, but no article existed for him. In the case of Conway Twitty, wikipedia articles did already exist for his predecessor Owen Bradley, and the producer that followed him Ron Chancey. Based on this, and the numerous references to his name in Wikipedia, I created the article. The article was initially rejected due to a lack of external references, so once I added the eight external references, I re-submitted it for review. At the time, the review process seemed to be substantially backlogged, so after a week of waiting, I moved it into production given the only objection in the initial refusal was references. I've attempted to source references from a range of websites, included photographic evidence then and now. I would assume that wikipedia would want to have information as complete as possible on every subject, and there are literally hundreds of search results available on Google and Yahoo search associating David Barnes with Conway Twitty, Nat Stuckey, Margo Smith and others such as Mo Bandy and Roy Clark, I chose only some of the most complete. If you can make constructive suggestions on how to improve the article, we would certainly do all we can to comply. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davbarne (talk • contribs) 16:01, 20 August 2011 (UTC) 173.37.200.6 (talk) 16:11, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There's currently no way to verify the biographical information outside the fact that you submitted it yourself. Word of mouth is not a source, nor is "but I'm related to David Barnes". The current sources are merely directory listings that only say that he produced such and such, and one of them is a personal blog which is generally not considered a reliable source. Another source is just you being name-dropped in an ad. The sources have to be substantial — not just the single lines in directory listings, as is the case now. It's okay if the sources are offline, as long as they give direct mention that amounts to more than just "David Barnes produced X", and ideally, biographical info on him. Notability is not inherited from working with otherwise notable people. I will grant that his production career being back in the pre-Internet days might limit things some, but if you know of any newspapers/books/magazines that gave extensive information on HIM, then that should fly. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 23:02, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I believe I can provide a list of offline publications, some of which are cataloged in an online format, but not the content of the article that provide biograhical information on him. I do have a greater amount of biographical information available on David Barnes, along with other links to other published materials that are available on the web, but to this point I was primarily attempting to provide information and background to support other existing pages on Wikipedia that reference his name. What is the best way to provide that additional information - should I provide it here, update the article, or simply provide a list of offline sources by e-mail? Should I also provide the additional background information? For example, Conway's son, Michael Twitty (currently in branson) recoreded one of his song's on his most recent album and it is available for download on itunes and amazon.com, but writer information for the album is not published on the web, you'd have to buy the album and read the liner notes for example. I'll provide whatever is useful in whatever format makes the most sense. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davbarne (talk • contribs) 13:38, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The newspaper articles can be cited with cite news, magazine articles with cite journal. I know who Michael Twitty is, but it wouldn't be a relevant mention since Michael himself doesn't have an article and isn't likely to. Just add the newspaper/magazine references yourself to the article by citing the newspaper name, article name, writer and date. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 17:02, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your guidance. I'm assembling a more thorough biography and references this week and will begin updating the article by the end of this week. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davbarne (talk • contribs) 17:09, 22 August 2011 (UTC) 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:01, 27 August 2011 (UTC)




 * Speedy delete A7 nymets2000  ( t / c / l ) 01:03, 27 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - I cannot find significant coverage about this individual to establish notability. -- Whpq (talk) 16:56, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Given that I'm a frequent user and new contributer to Wikipedia, I certainly want to comply to whatever rules, regulations, and standards of notoriety support the integrity of the site and its content. As I indicated earlier in the thread, what prompted the article creation was numberous references to David Barnes (producer) in other Wikipedia articles including:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Take_It_Away http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_Darlin%27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_May_Never_Get_to_Heaven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27d_Love_to_Lay_You_Down http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Stuckey

When I reviewed these articles, I noticed that Mr. Barnes predecessor as a producer (Owen Bradley) has a page, and his successor (Ron Chancey) also has a page. In the case of Ron Chancey's wikipedia page below, it is essentially a one line description and a pointer to a defunct web page that is no longer registered is seems. There is far less information on the web and in publication on Mr. Chancey than available on Mr. Barnes, so in the spirit of understanding "Why does that page exist if this page should not?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Chancey

Based on the above, I created a page for Mr. Barnes and provided information in support of the articles referenced above, so that if someone reading those articles wanted to click on the David Barnes in those articles, they could. If it does not make sense to provide the added level of backgound on Mr. Barnes for someone visiting the above referenced articles, the article can be deleted. I don't believe providing this information to the public in this format detracts from the information base of Wikipedia, but I will defer to the better judgment of the most frequest editors/admins. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davbarne (talk • contribs) 21:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There still aren't any substantial sources. The amount of information is irrelevant; the content of other articles is irrelevant. See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. As I said, the only sources I've found are one-line mentions, which are not sufficient. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 21:55, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Ok - thanks for the input. I'm in favor based on the above of deleting the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davbarne (talk • contribs) 14:36, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.