Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Race


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ad Orientem (talk) 00:05, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

David Race

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This is an article about a DJ and comedian who's main claim to fame seems to be a stint as one of Howard Stern's interns in 1987. The article as is has two sources: 1) improv.com, which is a broken link. A search of their website for 'David Race' didn't turn up anything, and even if it did the bios there submitted by the comedians, so I doubt it is an independent source. 2) The second source is a book titled 'Howard Stern, A to Z: A Totally Unauthorized Guide', where he gets a short paragraph that lists a few sketches he was involved in on the Stern show. The book only identifies him as 'David the Intern' so I'm not 100% sure this is even the same David - Stern went through a lot of interns over the years, including a few other Daves. No real biographical content that we could use to write an article. I've searched and haven't found any better sources, so I think this article doesn't meet the general notability guideline or Notability_(people)'s section on entertainers and should be deleted. MrOllie (talk) 21:21, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:28, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:28, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:28, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

I see that you have now nominated the page in question for deletion. I believe this is an incorrect assessment. I am relatively inexperienced at the Wikipedia editing process, so I am not certain how to respond within the Afd comments? It does seem that you are correct that the link to the comedy clubs website is now dead, and that the new version of their site has streamlined the list of included comics. So it appears to be that you are correct that the person in question is not currently on their website. However, I am very familiar with the persons work and know for certain that they are considered a regular at that club for about 10 years running. In fact the person is performing there in just a few weeks. So it is true that the person frequently performs at the stated club. Further, the podcasts referenced were both widely distributed through Libsyn, and outward by Apple and Google. It is fully verifiable that the current podcast has featured the guests that are referenced on the page, as the podcast is searchable in the public domain. The current podcast has also already appeared in the top movers and top 200 section of the major podcast platforms, in recent months. I can get you proof of that if you have a way for me to send that to you. The persons career as a prominent radio disc jockey is also at various places in the public domain. The person is a member of the private alumni association of one of the main radio stations mentioned. The other of the main stations mentioned at one time had a non Wikipedia page (and may still), that listed former personalities from the stations history, and the person in question was listed on it. I can get access to aircheck records of the person in question as the main disc jockey on at least 1 of the main radio stations discussed, if you have a way for me to provide those to you. The person in question has been in the public eye, through the various entertainment industry roles and jobs he has held, continuously since 1987. It would not be logical to remove such a page, as this is an actually prominent person, and the work referenced is verifiable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BordenLene (talk • contribs) 21:52, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete being an intern for Stern does not make one notable, and there are no other credible claims. The comedy club act listing would not add towards notability in any case.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:23, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Itemized additional verification of each claim made on the Wikipedia page, starts below:

This link verifies that David or Dave the Intern (on the Howard Stern show) was in fact "David Race". http://www.marksfriggin.com/news93/mastertape93.htm This link is verification from the likely most authoritative Howard Stern information website. At this link, scroll most of the way down the page to Thursday June 24, 1993. Once at that date, look under the heading "Intern Updates with Dave and Andy the Interns" at 6:50am. The 3rd sentence clearly states that the "Dave" is "David Race"... Also additionally, in reply to the assertion that there are no other credible claims: This person is the host of a very popular podcast, that is clearly verifiable in the public domain, and has verifiable had the recent celebrity guests appear on the program, as described. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BordenLene (talk • contribs) 22:31, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

These links verify that David Race regularly appears alongside other notable comedians at the Hollywood Improv alongside other notable persons: https://improv.com/hollywood/event/bill+devlin%27s+comedy+%26+cocktails/8562845/

https://www.ticketweb.com/event/comedy-cocktails-with-david-spade-jackie-kashian-wayne-federman-bill-devlin-more-david-spade-jackie-kashian-wayne-federman-brad-williams-matt-iseman-jared-freid-david-race-bill-devlin-hollywood-improv-the-main-room-tickets/7788925 — Preceding unsigned comment added by BordenLene (talk • contribs) 22:38, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

This link verifies that David Race (then going by on air name "Dave Race") was in fact a disc jockey at WMMR starting in 1996: This link takes you to the wayback machine cached screenshot of WMMR's official website in late 1996. Once there, click on the word "Weekenders". It will leap to the photos of the WMMR weekend disc jockeys at that time. It clearly shows "Dave Race" as one of the on air disc jockeys at the time, as stated on the Wikipedia page under review... https://web.archive.org/web/19961115053404/http://www.wmmr.com/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by BordenLene (talk • contribs) 22:47, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

This link verifies that the Monstrosity podcast is a known program in the public domain, with the actual celebrity guests the page claims appeared: This link to Stitcher, one of the largest podcast distributors, clearly shows the Monstrosity podcast has had the various celebrities claimed on the David Race Wikipedia page, on the podcast as guests... https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/david-race/monstrosity-with-david-race — Preceding unsigned comment added by BordenLene (talk • contribs) 22:51, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

This link verifies David Race is of enough notoriety to have been the subject a national radio interview, conducted by celebrity Jason Hawes, in 2018: This is a link to a recent national radio interview done with David Race on the Westwood One radio network: http://beyondrealityradio.com/david-race-discusses-his-blend-of-comedy-the-paranormal-then-john-kuykendall-talks-about-his-research-into-bigfoot/?fbclid=IwAR0aaV4Iq9zYRFJHQiuBsupZUFVM-o41zABhgIj4m9Eh6zwzQ2rY6MvncCs — Preceding unsigned comment added by BordenLene (talk • contribs) 22:59, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Important - Is the resolution of this perhaps as follows? After you review all of the verification content I have added to this discussion, maybe there is a way that an editor better skilled than me, can incorporate some or all of the verification content I have added (in this discussion), into the Wikipedia page itself? Maybe this can stop the AFD and also allow for the removal of the templates saying the page is missing verification elements? It seems that this would be a correct outcome, as the content I have added above, does prove the claims on the page to be accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BordenLene (talk • contribs)


 * Comment improv.com, ticketweb, WMMR and Stitcher aren't independent. Beyond Reality radio is a syndicated radio show that accepts the claims of psychics and UFO conspiracy theorists at face value, so I would think they don't have much of a reputation for fact checking. We need independent, reliable sources. - MrOllie (talk) 11:30, 3 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Per WP:GNG, the subject has received no significant coverage in reliable sources (emphasis mine). JoJo Anthrax (talk) 03:03, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. There is nothing here. Drmies (talk) 03:05, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. He's clearly been successful (and I exhumed the Improv reference using the Wayback Machine and added the Holywood Improv), but I don't find independent coverage. Yngvadottir (talk) 14:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

MrOllie and other editors - What has been started here is a feeding frenzy. It's not an actual addressing of reality. The facts of the matter are: The Improv is one of the most important comedy clubs in the United States. Their site has featured this person many times over the years, and until some type of redesign of the site, did include him in their listing of comedians. A comedian cannot simply put themselves on their site, or their promotional content on other websites such as ticketweb. The Improv is independent of this person, and therefore their posting of this person in their promotional content (as has been proven), as part of their live comedy line ups, is independent verification that the claims are true. Likewise ticketweb and many other sites that list this person as appearing in celebrity filled comedy shows, have no association with this person, and therefore are independent verification that this person is of notoriety.

Likewise, WMMR is a radio station,in one of the ten largest cities in America. It has now been shown that this person was an on air personality, being heard by hundreds of thousands of people, on WMMR, as claimed. Thus that too has been verified, by the independent and separate from this individual WMMR website. Similar online substantiation from the WBAB and other radio stations mentioned on the page would have been available as proof of those radio stations having employed this person. But there was no internet at the time of his employment at those radio stations, so no screenshots or similar could be located.

Stitcher, Apple (iTunes), Google Play, and all the other podcast distributors, are independent of this person. All of them show that this person does have a podcast currently being distributed on all of those platforms, that features all of the celebrity guests on the program, that are claimed to have appeared in this persons page. Those celebrity guests do not appear on the average persons podcast. They appear on this persons podcast, because this person is also a person of re-known, that they believe it is worth appearing on his program.

The fact that the subject matter of this persons program is paranormal topics, and as a result he has been asked to appear on other paranormal shows, does not make this a non valid person to have been included on Wikipedia. The reality is that this person is of enough fame and notoriety to have been asked to appear as a guest on a Westwood One national radio program, regardless of what any editors views are of the topic. The fact that this person was requested to appear, is further proof of this persons notoriety, and is an independent method for determining that.

Linked is another recent article from a non affiliated website, that I have located. It describes this persons current podcast as a celebrity oriented program. This serves as further independent verification of this persons current notoriety, and that he is therefore logically the subject of a Wikipedia page: http://squatchable.com/article.asp?id=398

Wikipedia includes many pages about far less famous, less notable individuals than this person. This person is obviously accomplished enough to attract many fellow celebrities to appear on his program, and to be given performance dates on celebrity filled live stand up comedy shows. There is no reason for this page to be deleted. The correct and logical outcome of this might be for this page to include some of the links I have added to this talk, or for some other edits to be made. But removal is not logical, as this person is clearly notable, and I have shown through the links I've provided, that this persons claims on the page, are all valid. I re-state as I did earlier, that I am not an accomplished editor of Wikipedia. I am unsure how to include the links and content in this talk, to help the pages verification, as many be warranted. If any editor here agrees with me, that this might be the logical way to resolve this Afd, your help would be welcomed. Thank you. BordenLene (talk) 00:19, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete, Fails Wp:GNG, no significant coverage. Alex-h (talk) 14:09, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. By any measure, he fails notability: GNG, WP:CREATIVE, WP:ENT, WP:NACTOR, and WP:SIGCOV. I note that the argument for inclusion basically is WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Bearian (talk) 20:23, 9 March 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.