Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Samson


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Nja 247 10:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

David Samson

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This article was deleted via PROD, but was restored by Jon513, who created it. I'm putting it to this AFD because in my opinion it should be deleted for the following reasons:
 * 1) The first sentence is disputed, and I don't believe there is any way to determine it. Google search for דוד סמסון gives only 287 results, and the search for דויד סמסון gives 0. For comparison: Rabbi Yuval Sherlo gets 163,000 google hits. In my opinion there is not sufficient coverage in reliable sources. Also, search in english ("David Samson") doesn't give better results in comparison to "one of the leading..."
 * 2) The weekly TV feature magazine "Israeli Salad" is not notable, primarily since Arutz Sheva is broadcasted only in the internet. Besides, the article failes to deacribe Rabbi Samson role in this magazine.
 * 3) "dean of Maale Erev Institutions" - What is the definition of this job? What are his duties? What are "Maale Erev Institutions"?
 * 4) "rosh yeshiva of yeshivat Lech Lecah" - This yeshive has no more than 25 (!) students, and it is equivalent to a regularly high school. Also, most of teaching is in regular classrooms. Even in Hebrew Wikipedia (my home wiki) it was decided to delete the article (discussion), and I supported this after the hebrew community was presented with exact details about the yeshiva.
 * 5) Books: Manny rabbi's write many books, but the article fails to establish their notability. As far as I know they have no notability in any field of research, or have any commercial success (and I'm religious).
 * 6) In conclusion: I have no doubt that rabbi Samson is a good man, and perhaps a very good man. But, being good does mean you are entitled of a Wikipedia article. Broccoli (talk) 23:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Many yeshivas are equivalent not to highschools, but to theological colleges. If this is a notable yeshiva at that level, he's notable. DGG (talk) 03:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: Maybe outside of Israel. However, in Israel most are equivalent to highschool. Lech Lecha is like a regular highschool, just a very very very small one. Broccoli (talk) 04:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep He's an author of books that are notable.  shirulashem     (talk)   20:38, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: How you determine the notability of such books? Most of their kind are not for the entire public, rather just for a small group. Also, the article states that the books were written with a person named Tzvi Fishman. Who is he? What's his part in the books? Broccoli (talk) 22:00, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's my opinion, that's all. And I think that a small group is a few dozen people ... not what we're dealing with here. I don't know why we're so busy with trying to delete this article.  shirulashem     (talk)   00:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that's because he is the principal of about dozen students. Two of the ISBN are wrong, and gives nothing, and the other numbers leads to pages in Amazon that is about a clearly non-notable books. Broccoli (talk) 02:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi ברוקולי|Broccoli: Shalom! Simply because you have eliminated this article on the Hebrew wiki does not mean it has to suffer the same fate here. What is your bias? I don't know, I am trying to assume good faith, but your vehemence is worrying as the English wiki is a far more tolerant place. By way of logic and process, the way you are attacking this article, and rushing to get rid of it by way of WP:PROD is a very hostile move in this case perhaps violating WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND that is also no reason to delete it, but rather based on the very reasons you cite it would need the Cleanup or Refimprove templates and certainly you should first have tried to engage the many editors familiar with this topic and Orthodox Judaism at WP:TALKJUDAISM and not rushed to zap this article on flimsy and hasty grounds. IZAK (talk) 07:02, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If anyone is treating WP like a battleground it's one editor who accuses a second editor of treating WP like a battleground because the second editor feels that an article doesn't meet the wp:n standards.-- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 18:38, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Howdy Brewcrewer, are ya here to nit-pick or to vote? Do you even know what the subject of the AfD is about? IZAK (talk) 06:15, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep N and very visible rabbi. --Shuki (talk) 18:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions.  —Shuki (talk) 18:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep because firstly, user, the article's creator can be fully trusted as he is a long-time highly responsible editor familar with Wikipedia's guidelines and policies and with Judaic topics of all sorts who would never insert anything frivolous into Wikipedia under any circumstances. Secondly, numbers of devotees of any rabbi at any given time are not always the correct criteria to judge the status and notability of rosh yeshivas. Thirdly, the article is well-referenced and meets all the criteria of WP:RS; WP:CITE and WP:BIOs of rabbis. Finally, please note that user  has noted  in Articles for deletion/Chaim Dov Keller that: "...Religious sources and media of notable religious organizations are perfectly acceptable reliable sources to establish notability of religious subjects and figures. Notability in the field, not notability in general media, is the standard, and that is met here. There is no problem I can see that can justify a delete vote..." and the same applies here. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 06:47, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Did Shirahadasha come down from Sinai together with Moses that he gets quoted with such authority? I also enjoyed your first keep rationale, "Jon513 can be fully trusted."-- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 18:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * yada, yada: Well at least according to you I am in good company with Moses now. Shira had given an excellent summation of an important principle. You can agree or disagree with it but don't insult Moses and Mount Sinai that is holy to Judaism and Jews, and to both Christianity and Islam as well. But why waste time? Be positive and take a stand and explain why in this AfD and not create side-shows of attacking me, when I have not even said anything to you. You are clearly violating (1) WP:HARASS; (2) WP:AGF; (3) WP:NPA; (4) WP:CIVIL and outright trolling. Stop it! IZAK (talk) 06:15, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Rabbi Samson is known for his works on Rav Kook as well as an educator for "students who do not fit into other frameworks" (his words), or dropouts if you are less polite. He has several schools which fit different niches for these kinds of students.  His night school "maale erev" has over a hundred students (who usually work during the day), and I know he also runs a few other school which fit other niches (I think he has one for French immigrants and English speakers) but I haven't found source yet.  The jeep school "lech lecha" is one of his smallest schools but has gotten more press because of how unusual it is and how it demonstrates Samson's ability to think outside the box and reach out students who are difficult to reach.  Jon513 (talk) 11:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.