Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Trosch


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Tone 17:56, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

David Trosch

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This was prodded as "self-explanatory". I deprodded so we could discuss it at AfD instead.

Trosch was notorious in the early-mid nineties for advocating the murder of abortion providers as 'justifiable homicide'. This came to light when he tried to post an advert in a newspaper with a cartoon that proposed this viewpoint. He also called for the killing of a specific abortion provider on the TV show Geraldo.

Despite all the tags and notices and apparently complaints from the subject and his advocates, I'd say from my reading of the sources - which I was too lazy to paste in but you can easily find on Google News - that this bio is pretty accurate, but I wonder whether it falls foul of WP:BLP1E? Fences &amp;  Windows  02:12, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  -- Cyber cobra  (talk) 08:21, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete The gent in question undoubtedly made uncouth statements regarding the death of abortionists but those were many years ago and their impact is questionable. The article is just about unsourced, much of it is patched together from what is purportedly Trosch's website (which does not appear to have been updated since '03).  An editor claiming to be Trosch has edited this page, by this point the warnings at the top of the page are longer than the article itself.  Maybe this guy is notable enough to deserve an article but at present, there certainly are not citations to establish this and the article is hopelessly flawed.  Blow it up and start over. Non-Dairy Creamer (talk) 16:35, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep and cleanup - a quick search reveals that the basic gist of the article is accurate, although I can't attest to every single detail.  The new coverage of his controversial opinions is fairly constant from 1993 to 2000, and he has been quoted or otherwise mentioned in about a dozen articles since that time.  The most recent being a LA Times story revisiting the controversy just 2 months ago.  As such, I don't really see how this would fall under 1E.  All the article really needs is some precise sourcing & watchful eyes.  As such, I've added it to my watchlist and will try to fix the sourcing within the next couple days.--ThaddeusB (talk) 21:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  21:33, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- Cyber cobra  (talk) 23:43, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per well-researched argument of ThaddeusB. Significant mainstream media coverage satisfies the GNG. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 00:06, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep That search by ThaddeusB can be refined to just fully free sources, which gives ample evidence of notability, including Time magazine in 1994 describing him as the most vocal proponent of the view that since abortion is murder, stopping abortionists by whatever means necessary, up to and including killing them, is morally obligatory on bystanders. The New York Times had reason to reference his views on religiously motivated violence in 1998 and Time Magazine in 1995.  The article is indeed a stub, as it would be easy for an editor to expand it.  I also don't think it meets the BLP1E standard, as some of these citations are to events years later.  And arguably, Bruce Lucero, M.D., New Woman all Woman Health Care, Plaintiffs-Appellees-Cross-Appellants, v. David Trosch, Father, Defendant, Minzor Chadwick, David Lackey, Kathleen Mcconnell, John Edwin Williams, Eleanor Stisher, Defendants-Appellants-Cross-Appellees, Chris Harding, Deputy United States Marshal, Movant., 121 F.3d 591 (11th Cir. 1997) (aka Lucero vs. Trosh) may be a notable law case, as there is at least some coverage of it in secondary sources and it has been cited as precedent in other cases of the same circuit.  (The law wikiproject is currently drawing the line on case notability, and I'm not sure which side of the line this case would end up on.)  GRBerry 21:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I was never in any doubt as to the abundance of sources; it's not hard to tap his name into Google News! My reasoning for worrying about BLP1E was that his entire notability seemed based on the fall-out from that original advert placement, rather than the article being about him as a person. If editors believe that coverage of his Geraldo interview and the Lucero court case side-step BLP1E, then it might be OK to keep. Fences  &amp;  Windows  07:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If BLP1E is the only concern, then a deletion nomination is not appropriate. Because the proper solution for a BLP1E issue is to either A) merge the content into an existing article on the event or B) move the article to a title about the event and then rework it to be about the event.  In neither case should the article that had a BLP1E issue be deleted.  If you need input on whether this should be done, the BLP noticeboard is the right place to get that input, not AFD.  GRBerry 14:29, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh, whatever. Plenty of articles get deleted due to BLP1E concerns. The article was heavily disputed, covered in tags, and I converted a Prod into AfD as I wanted a proper discussion on deletion. No need to Wikilawyer. Fences  &amp;  Windows  19:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.