Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dead Air Fresheners


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep &mdash; Caknuck 02:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Dead Air Fresheners

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Someone marked this for a speedy (presumably for notability) within minutes of creation, while I was writing the following on the article talk page; I have changed this to AFD, and am bringing to this discussion my explanation of why I think this should be kept:


 * The Dead Air Fresheners are incredibly hard to document, mainly because of (1) their penchant for anonymity and (2) the fact that they are significant only within a somewhat obscure genre. I happen to known that they would pass a reasonable test for notability by means of what other bands their members have played in (Karp, ...And_You_Will_Know_Us_by_the_Trail_of_Dead), but I have no way to document that. Our articles on Karp and ...And_You_Will_Know_Us_by_the_Trail_of_Dead both mention the Dead Air Fresheners connection, but neither seems to have a citation for it.


 * It's pretty easy to see from a web search that they have played live on quite about half a dozen (mostly college) radio stations, but none of the stations seem to have archived the performances, and the documentation of that seems to come mainly from things we normally do not consider reliable sources (blogs, MySpace, Angelfire sites, YouTube, etc.). They've apparently played every Olympia Festival of Experimental Musics [better known as Olympia Experimental Music Festival, it's used both names - remark added Jmabel | Talk 23:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)] an article we probably should have and don't) for a decade; it's easy to confirm some of those appearances from a web search, but I can't find any outright statement that they've played there 10 years in a row. Similarly, a web search makes it clear that they've toured a good bit around western Oregon, western Washington, and (in at least one case) as far as Pittsburgh, PA, but it's mainly from plain gig listings (it's not like experimental, largely electronic bands tend to get on the "Hot Picks" lists in the alternative weeklies); the fact that there is even one such write-up, by Josh Blanchard in the Portland Mercury, was the only basis on which I felt there was enough to write this. I should also note that their Portland Mercury band page is the sort of source I would not normally want to use (though I did): as I understand it, while those aren't paid ads, they are basically the band's self-description and aren't fact-checked by the paper.


 * Given all of that, I will understand if someone objects to this article; I believe that the group is notable, but their anonymous approach makes it very hard to document. I've been able to confirm quite reliably the identity of User:Dead-Air and that he is a member of the group (but not in any way that I can formally cite); in fact, he turns out to be someone I put on some concerts and other events with nearly two decades ago; and he has confirmed the identities of other members (but not in any way that I can formally cite). Which is, apparently, how it is going to go. - Jmabel | Talk 06:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Keep: In short, the basis on which I think it qualifies is the other bands members have played in and in being such a mainstay of the Olympia Festival of Experimental Musics but I'm having a hellish time documenting either. - Jmabel | Talk 06:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Also copied from talk page
 * Sorry, it simply fails WP:BAND, mainly on lack of recognized label and album releases. Realkyhick 06:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete, just to make my vote official. I'm the one who tagged this for speedy. The band fails WP:BAND, as they are nor signed to a recognized label, have no generally-released albums, have not charted a song, etc. Verifiability is next to impossible. Realkyhick 18:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Question: While I agree that their documentable notability is questionable (I started into this and then discovered that a lot of what I know about them couldn't go in, because I couldn't find sources for it; so I decided to limit it to what I could document, hoping to fill in the rest later), what in the article has any verifiability issues? Marrow, Blanchard's Portland Mercury article, KPSU, etc. seem like solid sources to me. - Jmabel | Talk 18:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In retrospect, you're right, though I would like to see a source that is a little better known. Having said that, this is more sourcing than a good number of existing band articles here. Notability remains the overriding issue, though. Kudos to you, though, for recognizing the issues involved and doing your darndest to adress them. That's much better than most articles in similar circumstances. Realkyhick 18:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep The intent of the Music notability criteria is to keep out garage bands & other groups looking for a modicum of publicity. While there is not "a lot" of third-party attention to prove this article obviously should remain, mention in a substantial weekly (the Portland Mercury is not a freebie shopper tabloid, with lots of classifieds & fluffy articles) & a radio station website shows that they fall within the intent of the inclusion guidelines. -- llywrch 20:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep I read the title and thought air fresheners that had lost their scent. I laughed so hard. But the band is at least mildly notable enough. i said 01:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak keep: they seem to meet WP:BAND's first criterion of having multiple, reliable sources about them. Bondegezou 10:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.