Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dear Jayne (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Two extensions and no overall consensu Nja 247 10:49, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Dear Jayne
AfDs for this article: 
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

this group clear fails notability see WP:MUSICBIO and their debut album was cancelled indefinately. There is a lack of distinct sources and coverage to warrant this page. Furthermore there is no evidence to suggest that they have a new release and previous releases reached only just scraped notability because "Rain" charted on billboard at number 99. It should be deleted in due course. Lil-unique1 (talk) 14:05, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep as I argued in the first AfD. The group may have "barely" made the charts (twice now), but they still made them, and I don't see why a low chart placing somehow cancels out the WP:MUSIC charts criterion. Furthermore, there are other RS's on the page which fill out some of the biographical information, so it's not as if Billboard is the only thing there. Chubbles (talk) 17:19, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * comment WP:MUSICBIO clearly states the criteria for notability, it must go beyond having one low charted song. Having a whole article based on the fact that they had JUST ONE confirmed release and a cancelled album is not considered notable. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 20:21, 16 August 2009 (UTC))
 * I think the whole point of having a charted single as a criterion is that an offical chart placing indicates that the group has reached a level of exposure consistent with encyclopedicity; furthermore, the article cites Allmusic, The Stranger, and About.com, which is a decent amount of press notice in addition. I maintain that this is sufficient to be considered notable. Chubbles (talk) 20:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete According to Billboard the group haven't charted, and the link in the article is a dead end. Allmusic says they debuted on the RnB chart but doesn't say where on that chart. I'm not sure if The Stranger is a reliable source as the reviews on the website seem to be user generated content, although I might be wrong on that. All in all, doesn't seem to add up to a great deal of notability. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 12:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Billboard recently underwent a site change in which some of its previously publicly available charts were hidden. The article's chart positions are legitimate and would be available in the paper edition, and the current site is actually in error. Chubbles (talk) 13:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm quite happy to change my !vote if a source or sources are provided that show they had singles which were placed on a national chart as per WP:MUSIC Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 13:58, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The Allmusic link states that the single hit the R&B charts in January 2008. I'm not currently at liberty to find a library that has back-issues of Billboard at the moment, but I hope this is sufficient. Also, that Stranger article is written by Michaelangelo Matos, who also writes for SPIN and Rolling Stone. It's not user-generated. Chubbles (talk) 15:45, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 00:50, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Comment The nominator has just removed the band's second charting single ("Fall Back", which reached the R&B Bubbling Under charts) as unsourced. How do we handle Billboard chart placings when they are no longer public? There is a huge amount of chart data linked to Billboard on Wikipedia which "was" sourced but "isn't" anymore because of the site redesign. However, it would be hugely counterproductive to start deleting positions, or pages, because of this. Chubbles (talk) 18:12, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * in response to the obviously die-hard Paradiso Girls fan above who obviously doesn't want anything of the group's to be deleted, there is no sources for the song "Fall Back". The bubbling under hot 100 chart is only calculated upto 100 because together with the billboard hot 100 it makes the top 200 singles. e.g. number 8 on the bubbling under chart is equivalent to 108 on the hot 100. If there is no independent source which says the song had charted then it has to be treated as uncharted. we can just keep articles because someone said they saw it chart but it now longer does anymore. And actually "Fall Back" was nominated for deletion because it is a stub, Wikipedia clearly states that there must be sufficiant information to warrant an album/song having its own page. One sentance and an infobox does not meet this requirement. and please can you stop making comments on this discussion and allow other users to independently give their opinions/votes(Lil-unique1 (talk) 18:24, 27 August 2009 (UTC))

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NW ( Talk ) 03:04, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with the "Fall Back" article being merged here, provided this article is kept. The chart positions are verifiable, because Billboard publicly published them (both in paper and online). If the online charts are privatized, the information is still verifiable, and the fact that my local library's music department is closed and I cannot physically check the paper issues does not change that fact. Please note that "someone" includes the person who first nominated this for deletion: in the first AfD, the nominator included a link to the Billboard page showing that the group charted at #99. The continued doubt over the chart placings, I think, is rather Kafkaesque. Lastly, I'm not stopping anyone else from commenting; it just doesn't matter enough to anyone else to bother. Now, off to check out that Paradiso Girls single... Chubbles (talk) 18:38, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- Cyber cobra  (talk) 08:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  -- Cyber cobra  (talk) 08:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.