Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Death of Mohammad Habali


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 09:48, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Death of Mohammad Habali

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Sad, but does pass WP:NEVENT or WP:NCRIME. Occurred in December 2018 - references in article are all from December 2018. BEFORE in English, Hebrew, and Arabic shows coverage is mostly limited to December close to the event, with a little bit of coverage (some of it unreliable) continuing in January. No coverage in February or March. Thus we fail WP:SUSTAINED and WP:LASTING impact of this sad event is unclear. Icewhiz (talk) 12:13, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 12:14, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 12:14, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 12:14, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 12:14, 3 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy keep: Military's police investigation is ongoing and there will be their reports, soon or late. See Death of Mustafa Tamimi where later reports came after the incident. I'm astonished by the nomination though! -- M h hossein   talk 12:19, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe, maybe not. Given there is no continuing coverage of this (and coverage limited to a certain month), we should assume not. Tamimi got continuing coverage to a large extent due to the family and the specific village being very famous with various subsequent events - without coverage centered on Ahed Tamimi and her family, it is unlikely it would've been covered in a sustained fashion. Sadly such events are far too routine and common in the West Bank. Icewhiz (talk) 12:25, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I think you rushed into this nomination given the fact that the last sources dealing with this subject date back to 2-3 months ago, which are not too far from us! -- M h hossein   talk 14:40, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * The sources are all confined to the month of the event (+ a little bit of spillover to the next month - in less reliable or non-reliable sources) - this is a rather strong indication of lack of continuing coverage. In Dec/Jan it might have been worth waiting a bit for the nomination to see if coverage continues - but we're now in March. Icewhiz (talk) 15:02, 3 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Also, Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. If anything significant emerges from the military investigation (unlikely IMO), then the article can always be recreated. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:56, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: A quick search led me to this fresh source. Al-Haq, an independent Palestinian human-rights organization, have sent Submission to UN Special Rapporteur regarding issues among them Death of Mohammad Habali. There's also this one from mid Jan. -- M h hossein   talk 04:40, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * That is al-Haq's own website from 1 Feb.Icewhiz (talk) 04:45, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * So what? -- M h hossein   talk 10:36, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:42, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Lack of persistent coverage; nothing in reliable sources since January this year. If coverage picks up again when (if?) the report is released, the article can be restored to draft space, I expect. ——  SerialNumber  54129  12:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per User:Serial Number 54129 and Icewhiz. Although I have contributed in improving this page, my first thought was to AfD it since I had concerns that it fails WP:LASTING and WP:BLP1E. It seems that community feels that this does not reach the mark per WP:NOTNEWS and I agree.-- D Big X ray ᗙ  13:38, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep it has been sentenced too harshly. As WP:LASTING mentioned, "This does not, however, mean recent events with unproven lasting effect are automatically non-notable" as well as the event is ongoing with such sources btselem(2 mounth age) and parliament.Saff V. (talk) 09:21, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comment but I should add that the Btselem source belongs to less than 2 months ago. -- M h hossein   talk 09:37, 7 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete a sad death that fails WP:NCRIME and WP:NEVENT because coverage petered out shortly after the event, and no indication of any WP:EFFECT.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:46, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Just like Killing of Esther Ohana. -- M h hossein   talk 18:57, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Esther Ohana was killed in 1983. The page was started last year. If you run a search of her name in books or news, you will find WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE over many decades.  Notability is more difficult to establish for recent events, but some very recent events do have WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE, stuff like in depth journalism and thoughtful commentary by notable individuals in the weeks and months after the initial flurry of coverage.  Take a look at some recent EVENTS like January 2019 Lincoln Memorial confrontation, 2019 Pulwama attack, Killing of Aya Maasarwe, to understand the types of coverage that are lacking on this page.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:50, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * That's why I say it's too soon to say the subject in question fails WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE or WP:LASTING given the latest sources being published some ten days ago. --  M h hossein   talk 14:12, 8 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment: I'm just bewildered by the above comments saying the subject fails WP:LASTING and etc while the latest source dealing with the subject belongs to almost 20 days ago and another source belongs to 50 days ago. I strongly believe it's too soon to assess whether or not the article passes WP:LASTING. More over, as Saff V. mentioned, per WP:LASTING, recent events with unproven lasting effect can not be automatically considered non-notable. -- M h hossein   talk 18:45, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * You are confusing WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE with WP:LASTING.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:30, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Then you need to see WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE: "However, this may be difficult or impossible to determine shortly after the event occurs, as editors cannot know whether an event will receive further coverage or not. That an event occurred recently does not in itself make it non-notable." -- M h hossein   talk 14:16, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * we here are assessing the notability after 4 months of the event. By no stretch of imagination can 4 months, be considered "" -- D Big X ray ᗙ  15:00, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * And we have sources for some ten days ago. -- M h hossein   talk 16:24, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * E.M.Gregory: WP:EVENT says "An event is presumed to be notable if it has lasting major consequences or ... receives significant non-routine coverage that persists over a period of time." So it is not necessary to satisfy both WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE and WP:LASTING for an event to be notable.VR talk  04:09, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * The problem is that this event has neither WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE nor WP:LASTING.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:05, 10 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete, appears to meet none of the requirements cited by editor above to be regarded as a notable crime. PE65000 — Preceding unsigned comment added by PE65000 (talk • contribs) 15:06, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. The sources for the coverage of the event are both diverse (Palestinian, Israeli, American and Russian) and enduring (a Palestinian NGO submitted a report on him to the UN just last month). So this meets our coverage policy.VR talk
 * RT which you link to above is not a RS. The event itself, as many events in the West Bank, received diverse coverage at the time of the event. However, WP:SUSTAINED coverage is lacking. That the most recent source of any nature presented here is a 1 month+ old report from Al-Haq sourced to Al-Haq's own website - is a rather strong indication of lack of sustained coverage. Icewhiz (talk) 07:46, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep: I presume it possesses sufficient related sources. I'm not sure why some users here think it's a suitable time to say continued coverage is OK or not, particularly by paying heed that it looks to be a continuing event by some media/investigators, that even can publish more related info. in future. There are also recent sources provided in this discussion. I think we can let the article go for some more months and see if there are more reliable sources. --Ali Ahwazi (talk) 07:35, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Fails WP:SUSTAINED. Coverage petered out after December. Here: is a gNews Search on "Mohammad Habali: filtered by most recent date: .  The Jan. 17 mention by partisan NGO B'Tselem is not news outlets.  I cannot find and no editors weighting in above have shown WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE.  Fails WP:NCRIME.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:02, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * gNews is not going to be our criteria! There's no guideline saying the sources should be News outlet. It's too soon to speak about the sustained coverage and, as I said, the OP just rushed into this nomination. -- M h hossein   talk 13:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Please re-read WP:GNG and WP:SOURCES. My point is that I cannot find INDEPENDENT WP:RS covering this event beyond a brief 3 - 4 week period when it happened.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:24, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 (talk) 13:22, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Three months is a reasonable, routine period to wait to bring an EVENT to AfD.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:06, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Not three months! The latest source dealing with the subject belongs to almost 20 days ago and another source belongs to almost 50 days ago. -- M h hossein   talk 20:26, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * EI is not reliable, and furthermore is on a different topic, covering this incident in a single sentence - a passing mention. That this is being presented here as a source.... Actually proves lack of substantial continuing coverage.Icewhiz (talk) 20:37, 10 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Note that Mhhossein is page creator.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:33, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per lack of RSs continuing coverage since the event. If more coverage is found in RSs in the future, then the page should be re-created, until then, delete per WP:NOTNEWS. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:53, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable death during military response to civil disturbance.A.Jacobin (talk) 14:32, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * That's the IDF POV, not a fact! Numerous reliable sources, including Israeli sources, casted doubt over the claim by the IDF. -- M h hossein   talk 19:20, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * No, it's a perfectly valid interpretation of the level of sourcing. No personal attacks applies here, as it's a direct implication that you believe this user is displaying bias. When frankly the only person whose been pushing a POV and non-collaboration with other users is you. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:02, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * It was a wrong interpretation of my comment. No, I did not say he was "displaying bias". @Joseph2302: You need to be warned against casting aspersions. -- M h hossein   talk 11:22, 15 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Time line of the most recent sources: There had been a reasonable number of English sources months after the incident:
 * 6 January 2019 by the Lobelog.
 * 17 January 2019 by EFE.
 * 1 February 2019 by Al-Haq
 * 14 February 2019 by Electronic Intifada (this source can be used when attributed per WP:RSP).
 * For 'Sustained' to be applied, it's not needed for a subject to be covered by sources every day. Moreover, "sufficiently significant period of time" is needed to say whether or not there's a sustained coverage.-- M h hossein   talk 13:21, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 * These sources are: a blog; a brief mention in a wire service story - we don't know the date of the wire service story, only that it was picked up by a newspaper 2 months ago; a mention  by partisan org Al-Haq; the partisan org Electronic Intifada.  This is not WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:44, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Just noting that I have reviewed the sources posted above by the article creator and I agree with the comment by E.M.Gregory about the problems with them. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  17:54, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed this list of "sources" actually indicates lack of notability - if this is the best that can be found.Icewhiz (talk) 21:31, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Agree with the above two comments. Sources are insufficient. Joseph<b style="color:#00FF00">2302</b> (talk) 23:59, 15 March 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.