Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Demonoid (band)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The discussion has been ample. That being said, a merge to Therion (band) may be on the table for later, though Therion is a fairly long article. Geschichte (talk) 18:58, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Demonoid (band)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Appears to fail WP:NBAND / WP:GNG. The SandDoctor Talk 04:06, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  The SandDoctor  Talk 04:06, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  The SandDoctor  Talk 04:06, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 06:47, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment There are several reliable sources: Metal Storm (with staff written album review included), Sputnikmusic, Allmusic biography, Album Review - Metal.it Album Review. Besides, it's composed of members of notable bands such as Therion and Dark Funeral. And their sole album was released on an important label - Nuclear Blast. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 11:34, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Metal Storm (webzine) just confirms that they exist (no other content) and appears to be a mostly crowdsourced webzine. The Sputnikmusic source you link does not have any non-trivial coverage of the band and the sole review is crowdsourced. AllMusic is a good start. metal.it does not have a Wikipedia article that I can find; I am unfamiliar with them, but it appears to be an interview-style review of the group's one album. This is not enough to pass the "multiple, non-trivial" part of NBAND criterion 1 (which is adapted from GNG) ("multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself"). It does not appear (per sverigetopplistan (1, 2)) that the group's album charted either, thus not satisfying criteria 2 (of NBAND). -- The SandDoctor Talk 18:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Yeah, Metal Storm is a difficult story. For a long time I actually thought it was an unreliable source so I kept eradicating it from any WP page (on huwiki) that uses Metal Storm as a source. It looked just like a database, with a blog / forum feeling. Imagine my surprise when I learned that it is actually a reliable source. I then started adding it to more pages but then I realized it is just like Allmusic - when the band has a biography / album review (staff written) and not just a listing of trivial stuff, then it is reliable. But when the opposite happens, it is not. Sputnikmusic is the same. Metal.it is a different story - there is no Wiki page on it indeed, and I don't know whether it's reliable or not. It looks reliable in my opinion - I use it quite a lot, and I think it looks reliable. But I don't know if it actually is. So even if you say that the sources aren't the best, at least Demonoid passes one criteria of notability - its members participating in multiple notable bands. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 14:29, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * At this point though, we seem to be running into WP:NOTINHERETED and WP:NRV. Metal storm does nothing but prove they exist in this case and provides no in-depth coverage (just a db listing with no info) and Sputnikmusik in this specific instance appears to be exclusively user reviews, which does nothing for notability. -- The SandDoctor Talk 02:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay. But what about two other criteria of notability? (members have been part of multiple notable bands) Therion and Dark Funeral are notable. (albums have been released on major or important indie labels) Nuclear Blast is an important / notable label. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 13:17, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * While it is true that two former and one current  member(s) of the band are independently notable from being in multiple bands and in their own right as musicians, there are currently no reliable sources able to be found to back up the key facets of notability for this group. I would suggest merging into Therion (band) based on that being all that is said about Demonoid in reliable sourcing. To quote from policy, "[t]o meet Wikipedia's standards for verifiability and notability, the article in question must actually document that the criterion is true. It is not enough to make unsourced or poorly sourced claims in the article, or to assert a band's importance on a talk page or AfD page – the article itself must document notability through the use of reliable sources, and no criterion listed in this page confers an exemption from having to reliably source the article just because passage of the criterion has been claimed.".
 * Regarding your question about #5's applicability in this instance, the policy states the requirement for the group or musician is that they have "...released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels." That is specific to the group at hand and does not "carry over" from any others albums that the group member(s) have released as part of another group (or solo). With this in mind, Demonoid fails this requirement based simply on the numbers; they only ever released one album, Riders of the Apocalypse, and not "two or more" as is required by the criterion you are citing. (Addendum: album never charted and nor appears to have otherwise been notable either, thus eliminating criteria #2-4 and 8-12) -- The SandDoctor Talk 05:39, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep the staff written review at Metal Storm here is significant coverage as is the review at AllMusic together with a small bio. They also pass WP:NMUSIC as a "super group", imv Atlantic306 (talk) 00:24, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * metalstorm review from <2009 is not RS per WP:A/S and therefore doesn’t contribute to notability. — The SandDoctor Talk 01:30, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info, changed to weak keep, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 01:40, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   13:17, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.