Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dene music


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Vizjim (talk) 06:21, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Dene music

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This does not appear to cover a distinct genre or shared tradition of music, instead blurring many types of music from many different Canadian First Nations and Native American tribal nations (albeit within a shared language group) into one. I PROD'ed the article last week as it had been unreferenced since 2009: editor AleatoryPonderings then did sterling work in looking for citations. However, the citations they have added both refer to music within a specific Dene nation, not the larger group. It would be better for Wikipedia to have more precisely targeted articles. This could be done by reference to specific musical genre (e.g. Athabaskan fiddle) or by specific nation (Chipewyan music, Tlicho music, Yellowknives music, Slavey music, Sahtu music). If there is a general shared music tradition across all Northern Athabaskan nations, then that should go to the more etymologically precise Northern Athabaskan music. Vizjim (talk) 08:22, 8 November 2021 (UTC) Withdrawn by nominator AleatoryPonderings has produced excellent evidence that a shared tradition exists, so we should have an article on the subject. The article needs substantial improvement, especially to the definition of "Dene," but I'm convinced it should not be a candidate for deletion.Vizjim (talk) 06:21, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 12:22, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 12:22, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'm going to get from the library and see what it says. Neutral for the moment about whether it is reasonable to speak of a unified Dene musical tradition. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 13:46, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Sources follow below. I'm honestly still unsure of what I think the appropriate disposition is. Maybe simply create Drum dance? I am wary of WP:OR here—basically, there have been very few studies of music among people denominated Dene. However, I'm not sure the solution is to use more specific terms such as Slavey music, because—although some studies, like Asch's, flag that they were conducted among people speaking Slavey, they cast themselves as studies of Dene music. Quote 1 is from Citations are replicated inline. Quote 2 is from Abel's Drum Songs; the full cite is in   tags. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:41, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Quote 1. Very little Dene music has been collected; only Mason's recording made in 1913 using wax cylinders, and Helm's tapes of Dogrib and Slavey music made in the 1950s and 1960s are on file in the National Museum Archives. … Until 1975 the only published Dene music descriptions were by Gertrude Kurath. These were based on a corpus of twelve Tea Dance songs and four Drum Dance songs (of the Rabbit Dance type) collected by Helm and Lurie … at a Treaty Day Tea Dance held by the Dogrib Dene at Lac LaMatre. The Drum Dance songs described here [i.e., in Asch's study] are from the Slavey region. They were collected at five of the six Drum Dances which took place at Pe Tseh Ki in 1969–70.


 * Quote 2. Music was very important to the Dene, who had a variety of songs for different occasions. George Keith described the love songs, lamentation songs, and ceremonial songs that were performed at Fort Liard early in the nineteenth century, noting that other songs performed at dance ceremonies were generally made in imitation of animals like the bear and wolverine. … Music was an important part of the Dene's lives … particularly in relation to the acquisition of spiritual power.


 * Creating(/modifying) Drum dance seems sensible. Vizjim (talk) 18:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Another comment. What about It may be that I was simply searching for the wrong words. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 23:47, 8 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.