Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dennis Grant


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. No clear notability has been established. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  essay  // 10:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Dennis Grant

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This material is recreated from that deleted via an expired PROD. Reason then was "Fails WP:NSPORT/Motor (has not raced in a fully professional racing series). Also BLP without 3rd party references." It appears unchanged (from inspecting the various mirror sources a Google search brings up). Sent to AfD for full consensus. My opinion is to delete. Fiddle  Faddle  10:01, 21 October 2013 (UTC)  Fiddle   Faddle  10:01, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep This page appears to have been speedy-deleted for reasons of notability, primarily due to deleter opinion on the notability of the race series, rather than on the individual so referenced. The page has been up since mid-2000; it seems odd that it would be trimmed now. Granted, it could use some improvement. Particularly, the person referenced has a few other accomplishments that could be added, and more work could go in to providing citations and external references (which do exist). It needs cleanup / refinement, not deletion. Page was restored to its previous content with a view to acting as a start point for future improvement. NorthStarZero (talk) 10:12, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment The page was deleted via the PROD process with the rationale above. At the time no-one associated with the article cared enough either to ensure that the article passed WP:GNG or to contest the PROD. Please do not cast aspersions on the integrity of the admin who deleted the article, it will not win you any points in this discussion. If you can ensure that the article is about a notable person whose notability is proven and verified in reliable sources, now is the time to do so in the article itself. That approach is guaranteed to ensure that it is retained. It is article quality and notability that is important here; no other argument works. Fiddle   Faddle  11:46, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The motivation for deletion was pretty clearly stated by the comments left be the deleteee. In addition, the deletion happened in a fairly short timeframe and not everyone who might have cared had the opportunity to comment before it was gone. Notwithstanding, it was noticed and has been restored. The comment about improving the article itself to increase its standard (and by so doing, protect against future attempts at deletion) is well founded though - what is the timeframe in which this can take place? NorthStarZero (talk) 19:58, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * reply Reading this will clue you in to the deletion process. Fiddle   Faddle  21:34, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete reasons for when the article was originally prodded still stand. The racing that the subject has participated in is fairly low-level amateur racing. The entire form of motorsport known as American Autocross which the subject competes in, while one of the largest forms of motorsport from a participant perspective, is pretty much entirely amateur and the while the subject's accomplishments are somewhat significant in the field, they are in no way exceptional as hundreds of autocross drivers have similar accomplishments. American autocross, as a whole, is not even covered by any sort of general media (or even general motorsports media). Finally, the article is still a BLP with no 3rd party references. -Drdisque (talk) 19:17, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep The race series that the individual's major accomplishments occurred in is a low-level professional series administered by the same race series that sanctions Trans-Am and American professional rally racing. It pays money, is a series in which performance at races all across the country is used to accrue points leading toward a championship, and has major series sponsors (at the time of the achievement, Honda). Granted, as pro series go, near the very bottom of the totem pole. But notwithstanding, a Pro series. Autocross itself, as admitted, it one of the largest forms of motorsport (by participation) in North America and a notable achievement in this category is thus, by definition, noteable. The fact that other drivers have similar (but not exactly identical) accomplishments is more a comment on the incompleteness of the subject matter and a potential source of improvement for the category as a whole rather than an indictment against the individual in question. Should there be pages for Mark Daddio, Bob Tunnell, Joe Cheng etc? as well? Absolutely. There are pages for Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and Joe Dimaggio for baseball; there's no reason who those who have achieved successes in autocross (and especially ProSolo, being the pinnacle) should not be similarly documented. With regard to the comment about media coverage, there is a link on the subject's team website to a YouTube video of an interview he conducted with SpeedTV - so while ProSolo may be under-reported in the media compared to other forms of racing, the claim that it gets no coverage is demonstratively false. NorthStarZero (talk) 19:58, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment I have struck out the 'keep'. You are entitled to one statement to keep something, though you may make many comments. While this may seem like a ballot,it is a discussion instead. The outcome will be based upon the article, weighed against opinions all editors choose to offer.. Fiddle   Faddle  21:30, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:36, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:36, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Prosolo series doesn't appear to be considered professional even by the SCCA, otherwise he couldn't compete in the "Pro" finals and then in the national amateur championships a few days later. A search of the SCCA website turned up no hits on his name.  According to the Far North team's website, Grant was the only "neophyte" in his class the year he won Rookie honors and then he finished 33rd of 48 at the amateur championships.  For a "pro" series there's more records and discussion of trophies than prize money.  Article also appears to have COI problems.204.126.132.231 (talk) 19:47, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Champions or notable winners of far less known (less notable) sports activities appear on Wikipedia and rightly so. -The Gnome (talk) 01:18, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter. See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 19:23, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that the subject is not the overall national champion, there is none, he won a class, of which there are about 50, once. -Drdisque (talk) 01:47, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.