Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dense (film)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Stifle (talk) 12:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Dense (film)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

I can't find any reliable sources that show notability. Fails WP:NF. Schuy m 1 ( talk ) 02:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC) 
 * Delete: article fails to establish notability. JamesBurns (talk) 03:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Vanessa A. Williams. There is some coverage available . Unfortunately all of these (except last) require registration, although the Google search confirms they mention the film. All of this is still not sufficient to fulfill WP:NF. But considering it was a credited work by notable person, a redirect would be beneficial. Leave  Sleaves  17:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.   —PC78 (talk) 14:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep as I have now expanded and sourced the article per film MOS. Notability is currently thin, but I think it just nudges to the plus side of WP:NF. I have tagged to article for WP:RESCUE.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 23:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per Mr. Schmidt or Redirect per Leave Sleaves. -- MISTER ALCOHOL  TC 20:13, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hers fold  (t/a/c) 21:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - Jesus Christ, you "notability" freaks can be so stupid. This is a Showtime movie, for God's sake.--24.129.100.84 (talk) 13:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Not only a Showtime made for TV movie, but Vanessa Williams' debut as a writer/director. The "notability freaks" were only opining about the article that first came to AfD. It has been expanded and sourced since then and a closing admin will note that it has been markedly improved.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * For a film a to justify notability it has to be widely released OR needs to have non-trivial coverage thorough secondary sources that does not include simply information about screenings OR significant critical reception. Just because a film is produced by a major network is not a valid reason for inclusion. Notability is not inherited. But as a work of a known person, the film does warrant mention is that person's article. Hence my suggestion for a redirect. Leave  Sleaves  04:49, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * With respects, the sources need not be exclusive... just simply "more than a trivial". I can well believe that when it was first released as her directorial debut, it got lots of coverage... and since notability is not temporary I will be searching in that direction. If I cannot find such, a merge and redirect will serve. No need to jump onto a delete or merge too soon as Wiki does not have a deadline. And because of her notability, any such article will definitely mention her.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 03:32, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's one: a less-than-trivial article from unityfirst.com: "Vanessa Williams to screen her Directorial debut 'Dense' at the Martha's Vineyard African American Film Festival, August 12-15".  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 03:54, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * How is this non-trivial? The source talks more about the person than the film. There is no description of the film or its production, nor is there any critical comment. I'm sorry but I don't see how this meets any of the required notability requirements of a film. Leave  Sleaves  05:23, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a real shame that her own notability has overshadowed coverage of her directorial debut. It's a shame that the film had not been written and directed by someone otherwise non-notable. It's shame that coverage of her film would by the nature of her own notability, include informations about her not directly related to the film. It's a shame that the film and fimmaker cannot be seperated. Its unrealistic to expect that sources about the film to NOT include her. In my search I also found an archive of the February 25 2005 issue of The Metro Herald, Page 16, where there is another "mention"... of her particpation in the commenoration of Black History Month where "Dense" was screened and Vanessa WIlliams spoke about her film. Again... it is an absolute pity the article about the film cannot be seperate from the filmmaker.  A pity too.... that she can now do nothing individually creative and have it accepted as an act apart from her own notability. If she discovered the cure for cancer, you can just bet that any article about the cure would itself include volumes about the person who made the discovery. Would that make the discovery less notable? However, the question is moot. I give up....   Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 06:43, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying that the news item shouldn't include her. I'm asking for sources that talk at least something about the film instead of her other endeavors. Is that too much to ask? Leave  Sleaves  06:53, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In this case, because of her incredble notability, yes. This may qualify as one of those situations spoken of at the head of every guideline... "best treated with common sense and the occasional exception." That caveat is included on those pages for a reason. This might be just that "exception".  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 09:55, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –Juliancolton Tropical  Cyclone  00:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep per the sources found by LeaveSleeves and Schmidt Tavix (talk) 01:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Films shown by the major networks have sufficient distribution to be notable. DGG (talk) 04:25, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Also, we generally cover the works of notable people if something can be said about them. Since Vanessa Williams is an award winning person and this is her directorial debut, it's an important part of her body of work and thus notable enough for inclusion (the sources make it verifiable, while the facts about the director make it notable. the whole general notability criterion only comes into play when other criteria cannot be met). - Mgm|(talk) 09:40, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.