Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Derek Frazier (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:12, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Derek Frazier
AfDs for this article: 
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Non-notable wrestler. He spent his career in minor promotions without major impact. His career is 4 or 5 lines. HHH Pedrigree (talk) 12:05, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:35, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. Previously deleted following AfD debate. Still fails WP:GNG, WP:ENT or WP:ATHLETE (wherever it should belong). mikeman67 (talk) 21:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete - definitely only wrestled in minor promotions, of which those mentioned in the article CZW's the biggest I believe, but he's never held their top/main championship. starship.paint  (talk &#124; ctrb) 13:29, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Striking my delete vote. Did a google search, he's been reported 142 times by PWTorch, 98 times by WrestleView, 64 times by PWInsider, 36 times in F4Wonline. The sources are out there, someone just needs to insert them into the prose and beef up the "career" section. starship.paint  (talk &#124; ctrb) 07:15, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * So, in that case, can somebody improve the article? It's a petty to keep the article (if it's notable) and leave it without make up. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep: CZW and MCW help to establish his notability. Everyone needs to remember that appearing in WWE or TNA do not establish the notability. It is appearing in various promotions, winning titles, and getting reported about which helps. PWI report, two CZW titles, two MCW accomplishments. Certainly notable enough.-- Will C  19:20, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Neither the CZW nor the MCW titles were the main title of the company. He's won two secondary titles each, which is not enough to qualify as a major success in my opinion. Anyway, his career section has zero sources. The only sources are for the titles he's won, and they're Solie Title History and Puroresu Dojo? starship.paint  (talk &#124; ctrb) 23:07, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I know about wrestling outside WWE and TNA. However, even for independent wrestlers, I think isn't notable. Two minor titles in minor promotions. CZW Tag Team title was held by 60 wrestlers, but we haven't articles for every one. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 23:17, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * CZW has had world-wide tours. They have shows in Germany. In fact they are pretty big in Germany. CZW isn't a minor promotion and MCW has had people from Jerry Lawler to Homicide to the New Age Outlaws involved with the promotion which has resulted in it getting a wider name. I'm the one who got the heavyweight title to FL and all of the CZW titles to FL. I understand how popular they really are. They aren't exactly minor promotions. Not huge, but pretty close to the size of ROH.-- Will C  11:39, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Close to the size of ROH... in 2008? ROH has been on national TV since 2009. starship.paint  (talk &#124; ctrb) 07:15, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

One way to judge wrestling promotions' notability in the US is TV/PPV in my opinion. TV/PPV determines their outreach and audience size. Major promotion tier 1 is WWE (including NXT branch), TNA with international TV and PPV outreach. Major promotion tier 2 is ROH with national TV outreach. Minor promotions should be judged as to whether they have a TV product (within states) or iPPV capability.
 * Minor promotion tier 1a for 2014 so far - limited TV product - Championship Wrestling from Hollywood (KDOC-TV, Los Angeles), OVW (ION, Louisville and WOBZ-TV 9, London) and AAW (MaddyGTV on Roku).
 * Minor promotion tier 1b for 2014 so far - iPPV capability - EVOLVE / DGUSA / SHINE (via WWNLive), CZW / WSU (via CZWiPPV.com), PWX via Highspots.tv and IZW via GoFightLive.tv.
 * Everything else goes in Minor promotion tier 2 and is very minor IMO. Surprise, CZW has been running iPPVs since 2011 at least, so they're maybe a top minor promotion after all. starship.paint  (talk &#124; ctrb) 07:15, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * CZW has been airing tv on G4 for several years.-- Will C  17:47, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Wow, I didn't know it. However, it means CZW is notable, not the wrestlers. Yeah, the wrestlers will be notable if they appear in CZW, but not every wrestler. For example, current Tag team champions haven't their own article, like former champions like Andy Sumners, Eric Ryan, Dustin Rayz, Devon Moore...--HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:29, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The purpose is national exposure. In CZW's case it is international exposure.-- Will C  00:20, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you sure, WillC? It sounded like you were saying that they had a regular television program with international exposure on G4 for years. I did some research, apparently before Feb '11, CZW footage that aired on G4 TV's Attack of the Show on Thursday evening. These emails have been fans asking CZW why G4 TV is only showing clips and not a whole CZW show and if G4 TV is planning on airing a CZW TV Show. Really sounds like a one-off feature to me, not a regular television series. starship.paint  (talk &#124; ctrb) 06:37, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * They have been airing specials and other things on G4 and I think Fight. I didn't mean a series. Exposure on tv is what I mean. All I know is from when I expanded the CZW titles and I found information along the way. I discovered that CZW is bigger and more successful than it seemed.-- Will C  08:23, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I really wouldn't count that they have been regularly on TV if they were merely featured twice. It's a one-off thing. They have been regularly producing iPPVs though, I'll give them that.
 * Promotion via The Wrestler (film) as well.-- Will C  04:00, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, we can talk about CZW and the TV, or we can talk about the wrestler. Yeah, CZW is notable, no doubt. Is Frazier notable, even if he appeared in CZW? Remember, a lot of CZW champions haven't an article (like the current Tag team champions, Eric Ryan, Andy Sumners, Devon Moore, Vorktez... Also, we have wrestlers who wrestled in ROH PPVs and they haven't articles (Adam Page, Tadarious Thomas, Cedric Alexander, Silas Young... --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 16:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * And people not taking the effort to write their articles is an issue for this one why? They may be notable as well, just means no one has attempted to write one. Eddie Edwards didn't have an article when he debuted in ROH, this Nici wrote one. I expected their to be no information on him and it was a very good sized article. C class if I recall. It is all about effort.-- Will C  20:29, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 10:33, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. As a minor wrestler with no notable impact, Frazier does not meet notability reqs. Also, 4 of the sources are essentially the same source. --PDX er1 (talk) 15:13, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete State and local pro wrestling titles? Not notable! A ranking of #273 doesn't do it either.204.126.132.231 (talk) 17:54, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.