Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Desert sand (color)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 02:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Desert sand (color)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Recreation of a deleted page Zinnwaldite (color) replacing the word Zinnwaldite with desert sand, see also Articles for deletion/Zinnwaldite (color) PaleAqua (talk) 09:12, 26 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete: if that's correct, suggest delete under A4. - Jarry1250 (t, c) 11:54, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If the article can be saved and improved, then that must be the preferable option. - Jarry1250 (t, c) 08:42, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep: See and . The AfD linked appears to be against a hoax article, yet this colour seems to exist? Not sure why this is nominated?  Jenuk1985  |  Talk  14:05, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * First link is to an unreliable source, anyone can add a color name to colourlovers at any coordinate. Second link is a cyclic source back to wikipedia itself. Finally the article contents is a straight recreation of the Zinnwaldite article. From the clam about the color of Pluto, and the bit about beige telephones not being beige. Even as the name of Crayola crayon color, there is already a list of them at List of Crayola crayon colors. Note the coordinates at that later page are mostly original research. PaleAqua (talk) 15:19, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I'm really struggling to find anything to suggest this colour doesn't exist. Just type the hex code into Google, many of the pages call it desert sand. Jenuk1985  |  Talk  15:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just looked through the first 3 pages of google results and they appear to be traceable back to wikipedia itself. PaleAqua (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right that there are a lot of things, including the second source cited by Jenuk1985 (which actually corresponds to an earlier version of list of Crayola crayon colors, down to the two notes at the bottom), that are Wikipedia mirrors. It's also true that Keraunos, despite xyr claims to the contrary in the initial edit summary, has copied the deleted content of Zinnwaldite (color) almost exactly.  (I just compared the two.  The wikitexts of the parts about telephones, boots, and so forth are identical.  This wasn't an original creation, despite the claim to being so in the edit summary.) However, it's also true that this is a real colour.  You've been looking for the wrong thing, partly because Keraunos has simply reintroduced deleted content under another title with the RGB value slightly altered, rather than writing a proper article.  A good article, which this is far from being, would tell you that Desert Sand is a standard military camouflage colour, used by the U.S. Army and others, and specified in standards.  (Color, marking, and camouflage pattern painting for armament command equipment, published by the United States Department of the Army in 1988, lists it as one of 12 standard camouflage colours.  Other U.S. Army documents list it as colour number 23448, as defined by FED-STD-595A.)  Its pantone number is 17-1524, according to page 149 of ISBN 9781931868259 (and 142-B according to page 174 of ISBN 9781892123008).  It is colour number 313, according to the 1942 National Paint Bulletin.  Its ISCC–NBS designation is 181 O 5-e, according to the 1955 NBS list. On the gripping hand, therefore, not only is this previously deleted content, it is also inaccurate content and badly sourced content.  (Apparently, readers are supposed to look at pictures and repeat an original analysis of the colours of the things in those pictures.)  The fact that this was inaccurate was pointed out in the prior AFD discussion.  Since a good article would have to be created from scratch anyway, without any of this inaccurate and misleading content, whether we delete it (as a simple re-creation of deleted content) or blank the article and start from scratch is pretty much a toss-up. Uncle G (talk) 20:36, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Some nice sources there. Replacing the article with a properly sourced one that was not misleading would be a good solution in my opinion. PaleAqua (talk) 00:20, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Did a quick trim and added at least the 12 standard camouflage colors bit. More of the above should probably be added. I'll probably withdraw my AFD if we can get a good article out of this. PaleAqua (talk) 00:24, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. This is not the imagainary color that was deleted previously, this a different color that is an actual color although its coordinates are very close to the deleted color.  Thank you for the information about the camouflage colors.  That is very important and useful.  Keraunos (talk) 02:27, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I found a website with color samples of the 12 official camouflage colors and I added it to the article as a reference. However, incorrectly I suspect, it shows desert sand and earth yellow as being the same color, whereas desert sand should be a paler and more beige color than earth yellow.   The 12 official MERDC camouflage colors (color samples shown): Keraunos (talk) 04:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I just added four new colors that are variations of desert sand to the article. Keraunos (talk) 06:41, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep, with kudos to Keraunos and Pale Aqua for the rewrite. As one of the camo colors, this is a commonly used name (Rustoleum and Testors both have this as a ready-mixed color; Case used this as one of their official tractor colors), so it's logical that people will be searching for it.-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  15:04, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.