Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dhikru'llah Khadem


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The keep arguments referred to the relevant SNG (and also demonstrated a GNG pass). The objections of the delete arguments revolved around the independence or lack thereof of those sources, which is a reasonable note, but in the context of sizable religions more acceptable -- and sources unrelated to the Baha'i faith were also demonstrated. (non-admin closure) Vaticidalprophet (talk) 10:13, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Dhikru'llah Khadem

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV Serv181920 (talk) 07:30, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Serv181920 (talk) 07:30, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 07:45, 5 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep - WP:CLERGY applies to any of the Hands of the Cause. All of them have been covered with some depth in Lights of Fortitude, Smith's Concise Encyclopedia and other books. Cuñado ☼ - Talk  19:09, 5 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep notable as a one of the Hands of the Cause in the Baha'i faith. Tarikhejtemai (talk) 05:11, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment - No coverage in reliable secondary sources. He is a Baha'i religious figure. Only Baha'i sources mentions him. Hartz and Johnson do not mention his name.Serv181920 (talk) 07:13, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * They are reliable sources. I think you mean independent sources. Baha'i sources carry a bias but that doesn't always make them non-independent for notability. See WP:IS: "A source can be biased without compromising its independence. When a source strongly approves or disapproves of something, but it has no connection to the subject and does not stand to benefit directly from promoting that view, then the source is still independent... What matters for independence is whether they stand to gain from it."
 * Also WP:CLERGY should apply to the Hands, though I don't think it applies to the elected members of the House of Justice. Cuñado ☼ - Talk  07:34, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * They could be reliable for Baha'is. WP:IS states that if the source "has no connection to the subject and does not stand to benefit directly from promoting that view, then the source is still independent." Baha'is believe that this person is a "Hand of Cause of God", and it is obvious they have a POV about him, your sources are not independent of the subject. And, the way you are citing non-Baha'i books is unfair. Those books (Johnson and Hartz) don't even mention him!Serv181920 (talk) 14:36, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Smkolins (talk) 03:41, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:CLERGY and overall mentions in lots of places. There are also lots of newspaper mentions of some length:
 * Also an article in the Chicago Tribune when his wife passed in 2007: . Cuñado ☼ - Talk  18:08, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

There are others: and
 * Delete - Not notable. Only baha'i sources mentions him. All those mentions in newspapers are trivial.Jammu58 (talk) 10:16, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. Please define how you are applying the word "trivial'. Smkolins (talk) 10:49, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Most of those newspaper links are WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS, specially the last ones.Serv181920 (talk) 06:42, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't see that well applied in these cases - the article is does not just briefly refer to him - it gives a basic summary of who he was in and outside the religion and quotes his talk to some degree. The second one, again, speaks to who he was and a action characterized as significant. The third names him the keynote speaker at a regional conference - it is brief but it wasn't an insignificant role. The forth is an event he and his assistants planned and at which he was the main speaker and arranged for the showing of a nationally televised episode of a documentary nature. The fifth was being part of a nationally organized event. Maybe you can't zoom in on the article well but he's the pictured person top left and states he was the designated representative of the Universal House of Justice at the event to which the governor of Jamaica came, mentioned in the caption of the picture bottom left and bottom right. The sixth article covers another regional conference with attendees from 2 dozen countries to which he again conveyed a message from the head of the religion. In the seventh article he was the lead speaker of three at another and well known regional conference of the religion. The eighth is again his mention leading a regional conference. The last one Cuñado mentions, here's the syntaxed version : portrays their life together as well as her own actions as a biographical review of her and them.
 * (perhaps the earliest mention in American newspapers, noted traveling in Latin America and Europe)
 * (very early mention in America saying he was away on a trip through Latin America while the family were in America)
 * (a case he "master of ceremonies" at an event)
 * (lead speaker at the dedication of a Baha'i Center which was followed by a multi-racial conference where he led one of the sessions)
 * (lead speaker at a regional conference)
 * (also refers to that conference of Indians at which he was a key speaker)
 * (a characterized figure at a dedication with other national figures,)
 * (featured as a key speaker at a regional conference)
 * (named a featured speaker at the dedication of the Latin American Bahá'í House of Worship)
 * (named a featured speaker at a national conference in two articles)

30 years of newspaper mentions just in America and pointing to actions in other continents as a leading representative of the religion and its institutions, to which can be added, more than a hundred Baha'i sources of him at major events including a book by his wife.
 * Smkolins (talk) 12:15, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Comment Khadem is covered with a 3-page biography in Historical Dictionary of the Baha'i Faith, second edition (2007), part of a series called "Historical Dictionaries of Religions, Philosophies, and Movements", No. 71, by The Scarecrow Press. Cuñado ☼ - Talk  21:52, 9 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.