Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dilshad Kamaludheen


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  13:04, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Dilshad Kamaludheen

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Doesn't meet the notability guidelines. zoglophie 21:03, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Badminton, India,  and Kerala. zoglophie 21:03, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Could you explain as to why you do not consider him a sportsperson! Baddyzone (talk) 23:21, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * comment:I have followed all the guidelines and notability of Wikipedia strictly. I have also written it in a neutral point of view. Apart from that, this page was approved and reviewed by a senior Wikipedia editor yesterday only. Her name is User:Florentyna. she has 16,000 edits in her profile and have created 1700 Articles. If there was any problem, she wouldn't have approved it in the first place, right?. but still, i will check the content and add more References if that's the case. Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 05:17, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * With regards to the notability guidelines. I have taken some of the references directly from the Tournamentsoftware.com and news articles, pdfs to support the contents where the person participated in tournaments. It is an official data where State Level, National and international matches are recorded for badminton and since, this page falls under Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons - Wikipedia. It mentioned that it should have Neutral point of view (NPOV), Verifiability (V) and No original research (NOR) So, i made this article with respect to that and whatever content i have wrote. i made sure that i have evidence to back it and i have mention that for each content i have written with regards to the primary, secondary, and tertiary sources of the Wikipedia guideline. Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 06:26, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment:The person has significant amount of coverage found on the internet some of the following references are listed below (You may find more on the internet) -
 * "Players: Dilshad Kamaludheen". bwfbadminton.com. Badminton World Federation.
 * "Dilshad steals the show with easy wins". gulfnews.com. 22 May 2005. Retrieved 14 June 2023.
 * "KAMALUDHEEN Dilshad | Profile". bwfbadminton.com. Retrieved 14 June 2023
 * Technologies, Melonsys. "The Official Website of Badminton Association of India |
 * BadmintonIndia.org". www.badmintonindia.org. Retrieved 26 May 2023. "Achievements". MG School of Physical Education and Sports Sciences. Retrieved 14 June 2023.
 * "All Kerala snooker tourney from July 31". The New Indian Express. Retrieved 26 May 2023.
 * AIU team still in limbo". The Hindu. 4 November 2012. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 14 June 2023.
 * "Double for Mahatma Gandhi Varsity in badminton tourney". The Times of India. 19 December 2013. ISSN 0971-8257. Retrieved 26 May 2023.
 * "Mixed day for Indian shuttlers at Canada Open". The Hindu. 25 June 2015. ISSN 0971-751X. Archived from the original on 2016. Retrieved 14 June 2023.
 * Narayan, Shankar (17 June 2015). "Manu Attri and B.Sumeeth Reddy through to the second round of US Open Grand Prix Gold". www.sportskeeda.com. Retrieved 14 June 2023.
 * da, kd (2015). "Kerala State Level Championships 2014 - 2015" (PDF). Ijssindia: 1.
 * "Air Costa 70th Inter State - Inter Zonal Badminton Championships 2015 at Vijayaw - Results for Rahimtoola Cup for Men". www.tournamentsoftware.com. Retrieved 27 May 2023.
 * "Air India, PSPB triumph". The Hindu. 1 February 2015. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 27 May 2023.
 * Kerala shuttler gets two-year suspension". The Times of India. 8 November 2018. ISSN 0971-8257. Retrieved 21 May 2023.
 * "KBSA backtracks, lifts N. G. Balasubramannian's two-year suspension". sportstar.thehindu.com. 8 November 2018. Retrieved 21 May 2023.
 * Commissioner, Principal. "Central Board of Indirect Taxes and Customs" (PDF). Indian Revenue Service.
 * Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 09:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep After checking out the updated references and analyzing it with the updated contents . I assume that this article qualify the basic criteria of WP:NSPORT and WP:GNGBaddyzone (talk) 09:31, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I would clarify that all the sources above are either listings of the player names or just passing mentions. The sources are far from having significant coverage of the player. Moreover, this player doesn't even pass the old WP:NBAD guidelines, let alone the present one. So, the above claims of having any kind of notability are just false.
 * Also, are the accounts Baddyzone and the creator themself are anyhow related? Because Baddyzone created Draft:Dilshad Kamaludheen and Syed Sadique being an extended confirmed user made the article themselves! This seems suspicious too. zoglophie 14:14, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, I will answer your questions honestly one by one.
 * i think not all the sources are just listings of the player names or just passing mention. let me show you some of the articles which has some good amount of coverage about the person -
 * Rayan, Stan (2009). "Dilshad: Making good progress". The Hindu. p. 1.
 * "Dilshad steals the show with easy wins". gulfnews.com. 22 May 2005. Retrieved 14 June 2023.
 * His partner Balasubramanian had a 2-year ban which didn't permitted them to participate in the competitions. His partner posted a viral picture on social media comparing how the Kerala state association treats their winners to other state winners. Due to this controversy they both got decent media coverage. i have mentioned about this. since, I wanted the article to be written in Neutral point of view.
 * - "Kerala shuttler gets two-year suspension". The Times of India. 8 November 2018. ISSN 0971-8257. Retrieved 21 May 2023.
 * - KBSA backtracks, lifts N. G. Balasubramannian's two-year suspension". sportstar.thehindu.com. 8 November 2018. Retrieved 21 May 2023.
 * - KBSA temporarily lifts suspension on shuttler NG Balasubramannian". The Times of India. 9 November 2018. ISSN 0971-8257. Retrieved 14 June 2023.
 * Pls Note -
 * I have mentioned the references on the basis of sentences i have written so, that i am able to provide evidence. For e.g. - The person has a podium finish in Lago International in 2015 which comes under the category of International Challenge. Majority of the references are to prove that the person has taken part in the tournaments he played from primary, secondary and tertiary sources which can support each sentences i have writtern.
 *  Coming to your 2nd point  - The player was primarily active from 2009 - 2015. So,  i am not quite sure with the old guidelines since i have joined this place in 2022. Now, i asked a professional badminton player before 2017 the top tournaments in badmintons - The Olympics, World Championships, International Challenge (In which he had a Podium Finish) Grand Prix Gold, Grand Prix, Super Series, International Series and Future Series. I am not sure which tournament is bigger expect the Olympics and world championship.  Since, the WP:NBAD guidelines hasn't measure about the ranking system of the badminton tournaments so, assumed that a podium finish in International Challenge will work. He did participated in Super series, Grand Prix and Grand Prix Gold. But i am not sure about his podium finish in any of these .. more amount of research will be required. have and as you know BWF announced a new tournament structure in March 2017 so, that add more to the confusion.
 * i made this article on the basis of Notability guidelines. since no original research was required, it has verification from independent verifiable sources like The Hindu, Gulf News, Indian Express, BWF Official tournaments data, etc...the article that i have created alot of secondary source) with regards to the match he played. Now, as you know Wikipedia is a free open-source encyclopedia which contents alot of complex guidelines.  one has to follow but sometimes situation gets complex which confuse people.
 * Also, If you read the 3rd Question's Answer in WP:NSPORT It says -
 * Q3 - If a sports figure does not meet the criteria specified in a sports-specific notability guideline, does this mean they do not meet Wikipedia's notability standards?
 * A3: No, it does not mean this—if the subject meets the general notability guideline, then they meet Wikipedia's standards for having an article in Wikipedia, even if they do not meet the criteria for the appropriate sports-specific notability guideline. The sports-specific notability guidelines are not intended to set a higher bar for inclusion in Wikipedia: they are meant to provide some buffer time to locate appropriate reliable sources when, based on rules of thumb, it is highly likely that these sources exist.
 * Q4: What is considered a "reasonable amount of time" to uncover appropriate sources?
 * A4: There is no fixed rule, as it may differ in each specific case. Generally, though, since there is no fixed schedule to complete Wikipedia articles, given a reasonable expectation that sources can be found, Wikipedia editors have been very liberal in allowing for adequate time, particularly for cases where English-language sources are difficult to find. For a contemporary sports figure in a sport that is regularly covered by national media in English, less leeway may be given.
 * Lastly, my article basically was reviewed and checked by a senior editor and literally just after 1 day it straight away was nominated for deletion. Like, I think an info notice would have been good so, that i could have done some more research about the person and if would have failed than i would have accepted my terms but anyways it fine. Because Here we are! Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 06:44, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Addendum : why did you create an article of the subject, the draft of whom was rejected on 19th April 2023 dear ? As an extended confirmed member, you should've checked thoroughly before you created this article. Did Baddyzone told you to help him with this article, the result of which you created the page for this subject on 27th May 2023? That's concerning, really! zoglophie 14:21, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I created this article after checking the number of reliable sources i could find. due to that i saw a potential for creating a Wikipedia article for this subject. yes, it is true that the draft was rejected and i knew about that. Now, if you check the draft, it had lack of information and it had only 5 references that's it and obviously it got rejected because of that. Now, if you compare it with the article i have created.... it has 25 references with evidence for each sentence and it was checked and reviewed by the senior editor who didn't find any problem. But yes, except the WP:NBAD that too for which i was not clear. since, i didn't knew the order of the tournaments which ranks higher and lower since, most of them got discontinued after 2017 and according to the 3rd and 4th Question's Answer in WP:NSPORT i thought i could have done this thing later... but faith has something else for me.
 * I also like to mention that the reason why i choose this specific article is because of the media coverage it got since, both the badminton player that is Balasubramaniam and Dilshad was part of the controversy with regards to 2-year ban for the alleged ill treatments they got from Kerala badminton association. As you know about the Wrestling Federation of India (WFI) President Brij Bhushan case that has recently been alot in controversy recently with regards to alleged sexual harassment case by wrestlers.
 * Now, i would like to tell you that i didn't know about User: Buddy zone in Wikipedia and didn't notice that he was the one who drafted the page honestly, until you told me. (Sorry for that) ...Also, this is my only Wikipedia account. and i don't operate any other account in Wikipedia. I was surfing through the rejected draft article in Wikipedia and got into it while searching the name about this article in google where the Kerala badminton Assocation ban controversy pop up and based on my previous experience controversy topics are covered extensively in news articles that can act as secondary source. additionally, the person also had a good number of references so, i thought i can create a good article for this ... Since, the page has nominated for deletion i am trying to connect with Dilshad through LinkedIn so, that i can ask him whether he had a podium finish in BWF Grand Prix Gold and Grand Prix or not. Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 07:36, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * you don't need to ask him. I'll tell you why. Just go to his BWF profile you yourself linked below the infobox. :-)) zoglophie 07:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, i did. it was posted by me after  this article got nominated for deletion lol... :') That is on 14th June and i was inactive for 3 days since i was travelling. Honestly, i wasn't able to check it properly since, i got the profile on that day, if i would have got it before thinks would have been different Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 08:40, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:39, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting as there is an apparent disagreement over the quality of the sources. Please keep your suspicions to yourself, it you have evidence of sockpuppetry or any misconduct, then take it to the appropriate noticeboard and out of deletion discussions. The focus here is on the article subject and not contributors to the page or participants in the discussion. Thank you. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:27, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Funny thing is the creator is not himself sure if this subject actually passes the guidelines and still he made this article. This adds up to the concern I expressed above if he was told to create such a non notable page in Wikipedia. What SSH just did is copy-pasting of the guidelines yet you fail to prove that the article you created is fit for inclusion in Wikipedia and actually pass those guidelines. I reviewed each and every source and I will tell you again that they are all passing mentions and do not pass the criteria set out at WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. It doesn't matter who reviewed or not, if it comes in sight that such an article exists in Wikipedia, it will automatically be nominated for deletion. <b style="color:#fffdd0">zoglophie</b> 07:15, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Alright, zoglophie. Next time if i get a chance i will put a whole book as a reference for the above Wikipedia article Haha... i think that might satisfy you lol Also, with regards to passing mentions what exact reference do you want? as i mention before Majority of the references are based on the tournaments he played. it depicts only the Information that is needed to support the sentence that is been written in the above Wikipedia article see -WP:BLPSTYLE and i don't think the verifiable news outlet would like to mention the personal life or what he had for lunch before playing the match and all haha. i have written article for news organization personally and i will only mention those things which is valid for the news with regards to him while he is playing the tournament.  I would be glad if you can tell me which WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV criteria its violates like in detail....  is it the independent sources? is it the reliable sources? or is it all of them?  i do agree on that there is less dedicated article on the person, but you know we can't put self - published article in Wikipedia. since, it's against the guidelines. it will also help me to be pre - cautious next time since, we have to take alot of guidelines together.   I would like to tell you that this was my first article i created for a sport person. i have created article before but for people of completely different domain.
 * Syed Sadique Hussain (talk) 08:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep - he is a medalist, former team captain, and several of his opponents and teammates have their own articles. Sufficiently notable and with good ref coverage. - Indefensible (talk) 00:32, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Medalist in old guidelines meant at least a silver medal. So which guideline you are talking about? What piece of prose you found to be considered sufficiently notable? Strange seeing this coming from such an old contributor of Wikipedia. <b style="color:#fffdd0">zoglophie</b> 05:21, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Analysis, *1 is just a database, no sigcov, 2 is only passing mention with match result, 3 is a repetition of 1, 4 again a database, 5 repetition of the 4th, 6 is match result, 7 is list of players, 8 does not even mention him, 9 again passing mention, 10 match result again, 11 list of winners hence a database, 12 match result yet again, 13 same instance of match result passing mention, 14 says he got banned from participation, yet again only a passing mention, 15 again passing, 16 a database entry, not sure how did it came here, but it did. There is no instance of indepth in sourcing, no significant coverage, keep votes fail to address the bad sources available for him. Moreover he does not even touch WP:NBAD from a long long way. Clear cut deletion candidate. <b style="color:#fffdd0">zoglophie</b> 05:44, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The subject won a national-level university championship for a major country and then a state-level tournament for a jurisdiction which by itself would be comparable to a fairly major country. That is probably good enough in my opinion. What is the harm in keeping the article if the content is factual and supported by references? Keeping this article helps expand coverage and diversifies Wikipedia. Also I believe 8 does mention the subject. - Indefensible (talk) 06:56, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * you don't understand WP:GNG, WP:SIGCOV and WP:NBAD. Your keep vote is like yes, they have some passing mentions in references and they won a non notable competition, so keep. Yep, they do no harm to me or any Wikipedia editor. <b style="color:#fffdd0">zoglophie</b> 07:20, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.