Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dimitris Spanoulis


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Speedy keep, original prodder withdrew deletion request (see last entry). NawlinWiki 19:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Dimitris Spanoulis

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Greek basketball player. The article was prodded, and for some reason, an anon user (dynamic IPs) keeps removing the prod and posting personal attacks on admins. Since deleted prod notices really should not be reposted, I'm posting the article for discussion here. No opinion from me. NawlinWiki 21:25, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I live in Greece myself. I don't know if you have ever heard of Vassilis Spanoulis who played for the Rockets last season and currently represents Greece in Eurobasket 2007. He currently plays for a team i haven't heard of. In addition, if you check the external references many of them refer to Vassilis Spanoulis and not Dimitris since there isn't really much information around about Dimitris Spanoulis. You can also tell that he's not that known because of the fact that there aren't any articles on wikipedia for the teams he's played for. Cheers.Of course he was not drafted and i strongly believe the rewards he's been attributed are untrue. Cheers. Sergiogr 21:34, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

sergiogr should be blocked and warned not to do this

First of all he marked this article for deletion without following ANY of the guidelines. For example he PURPOSELY marked that the player had never played in the top Greek pro league. THAT WAS A LIE.

He purposely marked the player was on a made up team. THAT WAS A LIE. He then purposely made to where not being on a current A1 team made you a non pro player. THAT WAS A LIE.

In fact he was on an A1 team JUST LAST YEAR and several times in the past. He made it out to where he was in a league difference based on professionalism, NOT TRUE. This is based on LEAGUE STANDINGS. As a person claiming to be Greek he KNOWS this. More LIES and more wiki deletion VIOLATIONS by him. He made it to where there could be "no evidence found of his team and proof of him being on it."

BLATANT LIE. Right ON the article was proof. MORE deletion violations by this disgrace to wiki.

There were so many BLATANT lies and violations of wiki deletion policy.

He then continued policy violations by making FALSE reports of vandalism and getting users BLOCKED. He numerous times made FALSE reports of "vandalism" and "harrasing" and "personal attacks" getting ANYONE blocked that tried to add to the article, improve it, or point out the false accusations made in his "legit deletion request."

This ridiculous JOKE of a supposed "dedicated wiki contributor" then had the audacity to start reporting ME ME for "abuse" just because I had a IP within a range of certain addresses and was blocked time and time again and blocked and sent frankly VERY RUDE messages by mods and admin telling me I was warned and etc then blocking me when I said look this ain't me.

I did a 2 minute search on Google and confirmed everything on that page. I also note this complete fool sergiogr claimed that if you were to keep this article all players from "A2 would have to be added." Yeah THIS THIS is a legit reason for deletion?

Is this guy serious? No wait are the mods that caused all this trouble and blocked who knows how many users serious? A lot of mods and admin need to have their butts reported on this. How lazy do you people get? Did you even spend 5 seconds looking at this complete nut sergiogr?

Never mind that in FACT he IS an A1 player. He's a free agent and played A1 previously 3 years. So I guess then using sergiogr's imaginary standard ALL NBA players that are retired or free agents should be deleted then right?

I hope EVERY person blocked because of this colossal idiot sergiogr and honestly downright LAZY mods give people a hell full on this. I know Matea is NOT happy about it either as he got the SAME crap.

Personally I think sergiogr and every mod that fell for this nonsense should be freaking ashamed. I mean did any of you look at sergiogr's creations.................ok THIS guy is putting other player templates on case for deletion? MY GOD look at his two, if you delete Spanoulis then you better damn well deleted these two he made and KEEP THEM OFF. The Spanoulis one is light years better than his.

Damn I am mad, all freaking day could not edit because of this loser. But no you lazy fool mods just believed this fool and did whatever he said.

Whomever was hijacking these IP's sure had reason to, I am royally pissed just brushing with this incompetence.

BTW, I notice A LOT of the European player pages have recently been deleted. Went back and checked that. Milos Vujanic for instance. SAME thing a bunch of LIES about the article that it was fake etc no one checked no one did their job just deleted it...........imagine that imagine

BTW these players have connections to Panathinaikos basketball team and sergiogr is a fan of Aris rival team. You know I just think I might open up a can on some of the admin involved in this and put all over the talk pages of anyone and everyone how pathetically LAME some of you are. Not worthy of your posts at all, ruining wiki with this BS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.31 (talk • contribs)
 * Please remain civil and refrain from making personal attacks. It doesn't help anything, and only makes everyone more upset. Thanks. --Miskwito 22:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletions.   -- the wub  "?!"  22:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletions.   -- the wub  "?!"  22:05, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment. I'm unclear on what the basis for deleting the article is. The article is certainly poorly-cited (there need to be inline citations), especially since it's about a living person. But I don't really see any rationale being given for deleting the article. Sergiogr's comments seem to suggest it's due to him being non-notable, but I don't really know enough to say whether he is or not. --Miskwito 22:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment - No opinion either way, but I thought I'd just say that this AFD is a definite for my watchlist :) --WebHamster 01:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Right, let's talk serious. First off, perhaps i am not the one who has been lying. And i am not a fan of Aris BC which isn't even a serious rival of Panathinaikos. But why would this matter? He DOES NOT play for Panathinaikos BC! He's just the brother of a current player of Panathinaikos. No vandalism huh? What are those on my talk page? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sergiogr&oldid=157010514 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sergiogr&oldid=156996025 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sergiogr&oldid=156994209 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sergiogr&oldid=156987073#You_stupid_ass_piece_of_shit as well as those comments on Dimitris Spanoulis article http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dimitris_Spanoulis&action=history (edit summaries by unregistered user). And don't tell me you don't have anything to do about all these. Plus the fact that he proposed articles i have contributed to and created for deletion and changed the dates on the deletion tag to have them deleted as fast as possible. What's more the fact that he isn't registered makes things more clear indicating that you are afraid to show yourself because you will be getting blocked. Enough said. I am not willing to talk more about this series of events that have taken place. As far as the reasons for deletion are concerned i don't have anything to add than that Dimitris Spanoulis is not < > to be in Wikipedia.His brother is but not him. Last cleanup looked good by the way. Thanks Sergiogr 14:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I forgot to mention about the external references many of which have nothing to do with Dimitris        Spanoulis like  Official HEBA Site

Official Hellenic Basketball Federation Site A1 League at Sportime magazine (Greek)Sergiogr 14:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I had a lot of trouble yesterday logging in. I registered because I couldn't even log in. Normally I just read pages, with an occasional edit. I have the Hughes Net Satellite system so it is very hard to log on with a user name. I see by some comments made here some people do not understand that. Anyway it seems to be a real common problem here that all of us Hughes users get blocked. This is really a pain in the rear.

Basically, we get blocked just because some people know how to switch the IP addresses. I guess hackers and vandals use the Hughes just for this reason? Strange really it costs me $120 a month and there are 3 higher packages than the one I have.

Anyway, I kept getting messages yesterday and kept being told I vandalized things. YAWN. This really is a big problem here that it seems you just get blocked without any real look.

So anyway I had to finally figure out what was causing this problem yesterday and it came to the Spanoulis article here and an article on a basketball player named Holden. It turns out it stems from the user sergiogr.

Well I guess what happened was sergiogr didn't count on the person that probably wrote this article would be able to cause all that nonsense. Sergiogr clearly was trying to make some point to this person for whatever reason and it backfired on them. The article is not deletion worthy IMHO. I wonder if sergiogr is one of the wiki vandals that does everything they can to get things deleted and gets away with it.

I looked over this seeing what was behind this as seeing I and I see here others were blocked because of this. And yes sergiogr many people are being assigned these same IP numbers. Hughes has about 10 million users FYI.

So I looked over this, to see if sergiogr is being honest or if he is acting like a rogue here, which should be discussed with him to kindly not do in the future because it gets other people blocked.

Well it does seem Dimitris Spanoulis is definitely an important basketball player in Greece and a professional. And it seems this is cited in the article already.

Example: sergiogr claims that this player has made up accomplishments. His explanation is simply that he has serious doubts they are true. This seems a bit weak doesn't it?

Okay let's look, it claims he was "led in scoring average with Xanthi BC during the 2006-07 basketball season, with a scoring average of 27.4 points per game. As a result he was voted to the Greek League All-Domestic Team, the Greek League First Team, and he was named the league's Domestic Player of The Year, Guard of The Year and Player of The Year.[1]"

Now click on link 1 and you get this page,

http://www.eurobasket.com/GRE/d2.asp

On this very page in top right corner it confirms he played on that same team and led the league in scoring with 27.4 points per game. Scroll down a ways and after all the leaders and some player rosters it looks like it has the yearly awards listed and sure enough matches exactly what is in this article. The article has direct links to this.

Sergiogr seems to be making things up here.

Now, this contention of the A2 division. I know nothing about these foreign basketball leagues honestly. I did some checking around. Turns our sergiogr is way off base.

The second division of Greece is a pro league. It is part of the Greek pro league. The second division simply means the team finished in the bottom of the first league or never won the 2nd league to move to the first league. In other words it is inferior as he claims but it's the same league. I think he is claiming this is like an NBDL league or something and that's clearly wrong. It's the second division of the pro league, where the teams that are losing are currently held at. Best way it makes sense from what I have looked at is, if the NBA used this method the Chicago Bulls would have been in the second division after all their titles because they came back with a bad record. The team does NOT suddenly become non-pro and players non-pro. Sergiogr seems to be trying to manipulate this.

Now this is stated ALREADY here at wikipedia look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esake

and this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_Ethniki

As you can see his FIRST team is an A1 team. Doesn't even jive one iota with sergiogr's claims.

Now look at this,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_Ethniki_2006-07

it clearly states here the A1 teams that have a bad year are put back in A2 and the A2 team that wins is put back in the A1. In other words either every edit made to all this Greek pro basketball is wrong or sergiogr is being a you know what. Notice also it says Makedonikos was in the A1 and went back to A2. This article also has Spanoulis playing with Makedonikos when it was A1 as I also found out.

This I found also the article,

http://217.13.116.51/ulebcup/noticia.jsp?temporada=E04&jornada=13&id=670

"They grew playing classic brotherly one-on-one battles in the playgrounds of Larissa, Greece. Together, they faced the early death of their father, a tragedy that cost both of them, but also made them stronger for overcoming their loss. All along, Vassilis and Dimitris Spanoulis lived with the same dream: to play professional basketball at the highest level possible. On Tuesday, both will take their friendly rivalry one competitive step higher as they face each other in the ULEB Cup quarterfinals, Vassilis playing for Maroussi and Dimitris for Makedonikos. Younger brother Vassilis is currently the second leading scorer in the ULEB Cup for Maroussi, with 14.1 points per game, while big brother Dimitris has been a big help off the bench with 6 points on average for Makedonikos. "Both of us are professional and definitely we want to help our teams continue in this competition," Dimitris says. "There is a great opportunity ahead of us and we will give our best to make it happen, even if it's necessary to upset your own brother."

Vassilis and Dimitris never played together in the senior men's team of Larissa, Gymnastikos, a steady member of the second division in Greece. The only time they were on the same squad was eight years ago, playing for a small team in Larissa, Keravnos. Vassilis remembers getting his hands on the keys to city's largest gym to practice with his brother for hours and hours. "Both of us were starters," recalls Vassilis. "Same size, 1.92 meters, same position, point or shooting guard depending on the games, but mostly the same desire. We hated losing a game and both of us were great fighters."

All the private competition paid off first for Vassilis, 23, who made the jump to Maroussi in Athens when still a teeneager. When the younger Spanoulis left his city to join Maroussi in Athens, back in the summer of 2001, Dimitris started his pro career on Larissa's second division team, staying there until the end of 2003-04 season, when he moved to Makedonikos at age 26.

Dimitris Spanoulis Dimitris in action "Even if I made the great step of moving to the first division three years before my brother, I can definitely say that Dimitris, who is now starting for Makedonikos in his first season, is very happy and proud of me," Vassilis said. "When he still played for Larissa, he used to come and visit me in Athens during the Christmas and Easter vacations. Now, as we play in different cities, we call each other and talk about basketball and analyze what exactly we need to improve. I would say a bit of everything, since improvement never stops."

The culmination of all their practice together came last summer, when Vassilis Spanoulis represented his country at the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens as a member of the Greek men's basketball team. Earlier in the summer, Vassilis was selected in the second round of the 2004 NBA draft by the Dallas Mavericks, who later moved his rights to the Houston Rockets. Vassilis found out he was drafted when the phone rang during yet another individual morning practice in Larissa.

"For me, like for many many basketball players, the NBA is a dream, but the fact is that many players have been drafted by NBA teams, but never played," he said. "In my mind, the most important thing is to give it a try." Dimitri hopes that his brother gets that opportunity and wishes him the best when it comes. "I find Vassilis's desire to go there as something positive and I am sure he will be all right," older brother Dimitris says. "Having playing time is a big deal, so that's what I want for my brother, to go there and have a role in a team. It would be great for his career."

Meanwhile, both players are concentrated on the mattter at hand, the ULEB Cup quarterfinals battle the can put either team - and either brother - a step closer to continental glory.

"I am sure that Makedonikos will fight us with all its strength," Vassilis says, "but Maroussi has great quality as a team and our goal is to go as far as we can in the ULEB Cup, including the final. We know our mission is very tough and we have to overcome any obstacle."

Kostas Sotiriou, Athens"

So Dimitris and Vassilis competed in the ULEB Cup. That means Makedonikos was an A1 team. I searched this ULEB Cup is the 2nd highest basketball in Europe only Euroleague is higher. ULEB Cup is higher than Greek A1.

Also sergiogr claims that only Vassilis is worthy of an article not the brother. Well here they are on same level in ULEB Cup, there are former and future NBA players in ULEB Cup teams as I found, with listings on wikipedia.

Here with wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroCup

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULEB

Now, sergiogr claims the team he was currently on did not exist and was probably made up and that there is no evidence of its existence anywhere.

Wow, this is almost sad he actually put this up for deletion with this as a citation.

http://www.beobasket.co.yu/eng/vest.jsp?id=9182

"DIMITRIS SPANOULIS SIGNED FOR MENT

August 29, 2007

The brother of famous Greek player Vasilis, DIMITRIS SPANOULIS signed contract with top A2 Greek team, MENT from Thessaloniki. Spanoulis played great last year for Xhanthi in A2 league."

And then this:

http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GRE&Team=365

Funny but right here we have copies of the team roster with Dimitris Spanoulis listed on it, and also a picture of Dimitris.

This team doesn't exist? It isn't part of the Greek Hellenic Basketball association? Well apparently all these European websites and other wikipedia pages here are wrong and only sergiogr is right.

Keep in mind all the wiki pages say the exact opposite of sergiogr's claims. You know it really is very odd he had users blocked for having an issue with his own breaking of site policies.

Look, I could go on and on, I found all of this JUST from wikipedia and JUST from the links given on the Spanoulis article. All I can say is this is quite frustrating to be on a netwrok that is getting blocked because you have completely ridiculous people like sergiogr doing whatever they can to ruin things here for others.

One last thing I see he now asserts here his reason is because the player is not well known. Well if he is not well known why are there articles about him on European websites like this one about him and his brother? This article doesn't even come from Greece. Ok sergiogr please no more of this stuff I do not like constantly being blocked from here and yes it is true I looked it happened because someone went crazy and all that BUT it happened because YOU wrongly and I might add going against site policy for deletion came after their article. In other words, YOU really caused it.

Wiki Is Mine 12:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, what you have just mentioned is completely true and proven. I can easily accept a behavior like this of yours but you would be furious like i had been after all these vandalism my personal pages have undergone due to the fact that i was proposing this article for deletion. But even so, those users against the deletion of the article should have replied on the talk page of Dimitris Spanoulis where i created an entry about a potential deletion. Also, I NEVER stated that the team he's currently playing for does not exist, i just said that there was no article about it on wikipedia. I never offended anyone even if i was offended many many times. As far as you calling me a wiki vandal i wouldn't really agree .So to put this to an end, i withdraw my request that this article be deleted. But only because of the fact you have written in such a way. And please next time avoid unregistered edits. Many thanks and apologies for the whole situation. Sergiogr 19:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.