Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Disappearance of Sarah MacDiarmid


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Keep. Lankiveil (speak to me) 03:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Disappearance of Sarah MacDiarmid

 * – ( View AfD View log )

as per WP:EVENT and WP:EFFECT. unfortunately people disappear all the time, they get some coverage but a mere 7 gnews hits says it all. and yes gnews has australian papers back for at least 50 years. LibStar (talk) 08:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions.  —Grahame (talk) 00:38, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Can you please stop relying on ghits for 1990s events in Aust - it is completely missing! The-Pope (talk) 01:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * no, Sydney Morning Herald goes back a while too . how about a search on one of Australia's biggest news websites, 1 hit . LibStar (talk) 02:09, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm staggered. Do you actually read the results that you generate?  The search for SMH find mentions of it in other papers, not references in it.  As an example, the Prime Minister of Australia at the time was Bob Hawke.  But search Australian sources in the 90s and you have one news.com.au link which wasn't actually from the 90s, and then a bunch from a single minor fringe newspaper. GOOGLE NEWS ISN'T RELEVANT FOR AUSTRALIA IN THE 1990s!  So please stop using google hit counts for anything pre-2000 in Australia. The-Pope (talk) 15:17, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * please find sources to establish notability for this person and her disappearance. LibStar (talk) 15:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. As The-Pope says, Australian newspapers from the 1990s are not in the google news archives. That said, two of the references already in the article, this one from the Australian Broadcasting Commission and this one from The Age, provide in-depth coverage of the topic. In addition, a gbooks search gives hits in The Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crimes and Mysterious Disappearances 1990–1999: Including Sarah MacDiarmid, Ben Needham, the Springfield Three Case, Morgan Nick. Even though the disappearance happened in 1990, it is still being covered in major Australian newspapers, eg . See also this search of The Age archives which gives 27 articles that could all be added to the article as references. Jenks24 (talk) 18:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment gbooks only really has 2 hits on this. LLC books use Wikipedia as a reference. LibStar (talk) 06:51, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 23:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I know that. The two books I mentioned are not published by LLC Books. Are you seriously suggesting that, even with all the references I've provided, you don't think this has significant coverage? Jenks24 (talk) 08:32, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * people disappearing often get significant coverage, I don't see how this appearance meets WP:EVENT. LibStar (talk) 09:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Considering that it's still getting significant national coverage 20 years after it happened, I think it easily passes WP:EVENT. Jenks24 (talk) 16:08, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   05:23, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - Per Jenks24, and per The Popes reasonings. There is no sufficient reason to delete this article.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:19, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge or Delete to Sensing Murder No enduring historical significance or widespread impact per WP:EVENT. What we appear to have here is that a person disappeared, it was reported in various media (understandably, considering WP:RECENT) and was mentionned again yeas later on a TV program. As such, it fails WP:EVENT, WP:EFFECT and WP:NOTNEWS. LordVetinari (talk) 04:48, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * With respect, did you look at the sources I provided in my !vote? Although the disappearance may fail WP:EFFECT, it passes WP:INDEPTH, WP:PERSISTENCE (see this for example) and WP:DIVERSE. It passes more of the inclusion criteria set out at WP:EVENT than it fails. Jenks24 (talk) 15:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I may as well add one more wikilink to the collection, namely WP:BLP1E. LordVetinari (talk) 10:03, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * BLP1E does not apply in this case because the article is not a biography, it is about the event of MacDiarmid disappearance (which is why this AfD has been centred around EVENT, as opposed to BIO). Jenks24 (talk) 05:30, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Cirt (talk) 06:33, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment I guess I'm a little confused about exactly how the subject is notable. The article discusses one event as it relates to one person. So let's look at each of those points. Considered biographically, the article gives biographical information, therefore the fact that the article is named Disappearance of Sarah MacDiarmid rather than Sarah MacDiarmid doesn't make BLP1E any less relevant. Of course, it is questionable whether the person is still alive, so I suggest we consider this more in terms of WP:ONEEVENT rather than BLP1E; which is basically the same but without the apparent requirement that the subject be living (BLP1E). Therefore, we must ask, was the victim notable for anything other than her disappearance? The answer is, apparently, No. We could, of course, refer to WP:VICTIM and, indeed, that policy seems to suggest this article should stay, but the question arises: Is mere repeated coverage the same as persistent coverage? We're not talking about an ongoing story, with a new chapter popping up every year or two (as with Azaria Chamberlain). Also, how is merely disappearing having a large role within a well-documented historic event? Unfortuantely, people disappear all the time, but Wikipedia is not Unsolved Mysteries. Which raises the issues of WP:EVENT. Was the event a precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance? No. Did the event have significant impact over a wide region, domain, or societal group? I presume not. Regarding WP:INDEPTH, I doubt that guideline alone would support inclusion else a single well-written news story would be sufficient to get an article on WP. As for WP:DIVERSE and WP:PERSISTENCE, to satisfy those two guidleines, I'd expect that each new or unique mention in the media would offer an update of some form; to do otherwise means each mention is simply repeating old news and, as I mentioned earlier, repetition is not the same as persistence. Nonetheless, I agree that this article is one of those borderline cases and I must emphasise that I'm not determined to see it deleted. However, I just don't believe the subject deserves its own article. Hence, I've slightly changed my vote above to emphasise my preference for merging. LordVetinari (talk) 07:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Per Jenks24. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  19:28, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Keep While I was previously unfamiliar with this case myself, the sources Jenks24 has provided certainly establish it as notable. This news article, for instance (just one of many), suggests that it's still very much in the national consciousness twenty years after the fact, and seems to speak to the criteria in WP:EVENT about duration of coverage, as well as implying that it did "have a significant impact over a wide region"&mdash;it seems to have been covered in national papers, and I'd consider all of Australia a sufficiently wide region to qualify. Smeazel (talk) 08:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Also, the appeal to WP:BLP1E and WP:ONEEVENT is utterly irrelevant. These guidelines deal explicitly with the question of whether a person only known for one event should have his or her own article separate from the article about the event.  They have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether an event should have its own article&mdash;that's what WP:EVENT is for.  If this were an article about Sarah MacDiarmid herself rather than about her disappearance, then those guidelines would be entirely germane, but arguing that an event shouldn't have an article because the people involved in that event aren't known for anything else is trying to apply WP:BLP1E and WP:ONEEVENT backwards, and makes no sense at all. Smeazel (talk) 08:14, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep. This link given by user: smeazel proves that the disappearance is atleast somewhat long-term notable.-- Pink Bull  15:08, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep In addition to the sources already mentioned by others above, a search at EBSCOhost Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre [Australasian magazines, newspapers, newswires and reference books]  for "Sarah MacDiarmid" lists 56 results as follows:

* 1.

News Sarah's flame still burns strong on the eve of a heartbreaking 20-year anniversaryFull Text Available By: DENISE GADD. Age, The (Melbourne), 10/07/2010 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 100 HTML Full Text * 2.

News PLEA ON MISSING SARAHFull Text Available Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 11.07.2010, p20-20, 1 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 95 HTML Full Text * 3.

News Did killer take our Sarah too? By: David Murray. Sunday Mail, The (Brisbane), 04/09/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 95 HTML Full Text * 4.

News Website to help grievingFull Text Available By: People | Donna Carton. Frankston Standard-Hastings Leader, 26.07.2010, p5-5, 1 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 93 HTML Full Text * 5.

News Website to help grievingFull Text Available By: People | Donna Carton. Frankston Standard-Hastings Leader, 26.07.2010, p5-5, 1 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 93 HTML Full Text * 6.

News Did Paul Denyer kill Sarah, too?; Secret fears of killer's family By: KELVIN HEALEY. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 15/05/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 93 HTML Full Text * 7.

Transcript Million dollars on offer in missing persons case ABC Premium News, 10/07/2010 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 92 HTML Full Text * 8.

News Yard hunt for clues on Sarah By: CARLY CRAWFORD. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 26/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 91 HTML Full Text * 9.

News $1m reward in bid to let Sarah rest By: Padraic Murphy. Australian, The, 06/02/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 90 HTML Full Text * 10.

News Brother's plea to find body By: Mark Buttler chief police reporter. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 15/11/2006 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 90 HTML Full Text * 11.

News Vic: $1 million on offer for info on MacDiarmid disappearance By: N.A.. AAP Australian National News Wire, 05/02/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 87 HTML Full Text * 12.

News The dark side of life exposed For 37years Charlie Bezzina worked tirelessly to solve some of the state's most shocking crimes. His new book reveals the heartbreak and hardshipsFull Text Available By: Keith Moor. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 17.09.2010, p38-38, 1 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 85 HTML Full Text * 13.

News $1m reward to end pain of 14 years By: Mark Alexander. Sunday Mail, The (Brisbane), 15/02/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 84 HTML Full Text * 14.

News Flowers mystery; Parents' plea over death By: CARLY CRAWFORD. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 10/07/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 84 HTML Full Text * 15.

News $1mil. to end a family's torment By: Holly Lloyd-McDonald. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 06/02/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 83 HTML Full Text * 16.

News Vic: $1 million on offer for info on MacDiarmid dissappearance By: N.A.. AAP Australian National News Wire, 05/02/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 83 HTML Full Text * 17.

News Stop our suffering By: HOLLY LLOYD-McDONALD. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 10/07/2003 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 83 HTML Full Text * 18.

News $1m for leads on missing womanFull Text Available By: Andrea Petrie. Age, The (Melbourne), 06/02/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 80 HTML Full Text * 19.

News 15 years and still waiting, hoping Herald Sun (Melbourne), 07/07/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 79 HTML Full Text * 20.

News TV previewsFull Text Available By: JUDY ADAMSON. Sydney Morning Herald, The, 20/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 79 HTML Full Text * 21.

News No leads from psychicsFull Text Available By: highlights WITH GLEN HUMPHRIES. Newcastle Herald, The (includes the Central Coast Herald), 30/03/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 79 HTML Full Text * 22.

News $1m reward in bid to solve 1990 murder By: Padraic Murphy. Australian, The, 06/02/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 79 HTML Full Text * 23.

News In good taste? By: Victoria Segal, Helen Stewart and Sarah Dempster. Sunday Times, The, 08/05/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 77 HTML Full Text * 24.

News Supernatural sleuthsFull Text Available By: SCOTT ELLIS. Sun-Herald, The (Sydney), 26/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 74 HTML Full Text * 25.

News Sense of satisfaction By: Eleanor Sprawson. Daily Telegraph, The (Sydney), 22/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 72 HTML Full Text * 26.

News CRITIC'S CHOICE - SundayFull Text Available By: LARISSA DUBECKI. Age, The (Melbourne), 23/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 71 HTML Full Text * 27.

News TV EYE ; Robert Fidgeon takes a critical look at what's on our screens this week By: Robert Fidgeon. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 22/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 71 HTML Full Text * 28.

Periodical I SEE dead people.Full Text Available By: Brown, Jenny. Woman's Day (Australian Consolidated Press), 27/09/2004, Vol. 56 Issue 39, p103-103, 1p, 2 Color Photographs Subjects: AUSTRALIA; GIBNEY, Rebecca; SENSING Murder (TV program); TELEVISION programs; SUPERNATURAL beings; PSYCHICS; BYRNE, Rhonda Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 71 HTML Full Text * 29.

News No visits to Denyer; Killer brother refuses meeting By: KELVIN HEALEY. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 04/09/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 69 HTML Full Text * 30.

News CRITIC'S CHOICEFull Text Available By: BRIAN COURTIS. Sun-Herald, The (Sydney), 26/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68 HTML Full Text * 31.

News CRITIC'S CHOICEFull Text Available By: BRIAN COURTIS. Sunday Age, The (Melbourne), 26/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68 HTML Full Text * 32.

News Psychic sleuths By: Simon Yeaman. Advertiser, The (Adelaide), 22/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68 HTML Full Text * 33.

News prime time By: Words: Phillip Koch. Sunday Telegraph, The (Sydney), 26/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68 HTML Full Text * 34.

News Turning to crime was not so tough for smitten new mum Rebecca Gibney. By: Words: Phillip Koch. Sunday Mail (Adelaide), 26/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68 HTML Full Text * 35.

News Disappearance haunts TV psychic Herald Sun (Melbourne), 06/04/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68 HTML Full Text * 36.

News Daredevils fit as a fleeFull Text Available By: Glen Humphries. Newcastle Herald, The (includes the Central Coast Herald), 25/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68 HTML Full Text * 37.

News In from the cold to defy a killer By: KELVIN HEALEY. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 28/08/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 62 HTML Full Text * 38.

Periodical SOLVING THE Beaumont mystery.Full Text Available By: Brown, Jenny. Woman's Day (Australian Consolidated Press), 31/01/2005, Vol. 57 Issue 5, p28-29, 2p, 4 Black and White Photographs Subjects: HILL, Scott Russell; PSYCHICS; BEAUMONT, Jane; BEAUMONT, Arnna; BEAUMONT, Grant; MISSING children; BEAUMONT, Nancy; BEAUMONT, Jim Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 62 HTML Full Text * 39.

News Psychic clues By: Erica Thompson. Courier Mail, The (Brisbane), 23/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 61 HTML Full Text * 40.

News A case for psychics By: TONY JOHNSTON. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 26/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 59 HTML Full Text * 41.

News NETWORKINGFull Text Available By: KYLIE MILLER. Age, The (Melbourne), 23/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 57 HTML Full Text * 42.

News Hands-on psychics By: Kerrie Murphy. Australian, The, 25/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 57 HTML Full Text * 43.

News Bones discovered in backyardFull Text Available Frankston Standard-Hastings Leader, 09.08.2010, p2-2, 1 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 54 HTML Full Text * 44.

Periodical 'I KNOW WHERE THE BEAUMONTS ARE!'.Full Text Available By: Brown, Jenny. Woman's Day (Australian Consolidated Press), 06/02/2006, Vol. 58 Issue 6, p32-33, 2p, 2 Color Photographs, 2 Black and White Photographs Subjects: ADELAIDE (S. Aust.); AUSTRALIA; HILL, Scott Russell; CHILDREN -- Death; AUSTRALIA Day Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 52 HTML Full Text * 45.

News There to help outFull Text Available By: Volunteers | Jeff Jones. Oakleigh Monash-Springvale Dandenong Leader, 30.09.2009, p5-5, 1 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 51 HTML Full Text * 46.

News Witnesses 'too scared' to plunge into police rewards poolFull Text Available By: MARK RUSSELL. Sunday Age, The (Melbourne), 22/03/2009 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 50 HTML Full Text * 47.

News Police rewards going unpaidFull Text Available By: MEX COOPER. Age, The (Melbourne), 19/01/2009 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 50 HTML Full Text * 48.

News Rewards face scrap as $10m unclaimed By: Mark Dunn. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 06/02/2006 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 46 HTML Full Text * 49.

News A state of mind; Rebecca Gibney is loving her new life, writes Darren Devlyn By: Darren Devlyn. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 22/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 45 HTML Full Text * 50.

News don't miss By: Robert Fidgeon. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 25/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 45 HTML Full Text

# $1m for murder reward; Parents of slain woman win inquest By: Geoff Wilkinson. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 17/12/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 45 HTML Full Text
 * 1) 52.

News $1m reward for graveside killer By: Gosia Kaszubska. Australian, The, 02/02/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 45 HTML Full Text
 * 1) 53.

News $1m reward for graveside killer By: Gosia Kaszubska. Australian, The, 02/02/2005 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 45 HTML Full Text
 * 1) 54.

News Witness to death revealed; Police re-open strangling case By: CARLY CRAWFORD. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 06/06/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 45 HTML Full Text
 * 1) 55.

News Psychic phenomena By: TONY JOHNSTON. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 14/11/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 45 HTML Full Text
 * 1) 56.

News Swimming out of fearFull Text Available By: with GLEN HUMPHRIES. Illawarra Mercury, 25/09/2004 Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 45 HTML Full Text

--Melburnian (talk) 05:58, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.