Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Disengaging from an abuser using the no contact rule or grey rock method


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. If any participants (or others) want a copy of the article to incorporate content into other (appropriate) articles, I can userfy or email you a copy. There seems to be clear consensus that this article, as it stands, violates WP:NOT. As an interesting note, there was something like 17 redirects pointing to this page, which I deleted. Wow. Killiondude (talk) 07:06, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Disengaging from an abuser using the no contact rule or grey rock method

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This is a how-to guide, not an encyclopedia article. Worse, it's a how-to guide giving advice on a mental health topic, which arguably makes it medical advice, something Wikipedia explicitly should not give. It may be possible to write separate encyclopedia articles about the "no contact rule" or the "grey rock method", but this page is not an encyclopedia article and cannot be turned into one. If someone has an idea what alternative outlet might be interested in this kind of content, moving it somewhere else before it's deleted here may be an option. Huon (talk) 01:13, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Psychology-related deletion discussions. Everymorning (talk) 01:16, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. PriceDL (talk) 01:16, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Social science-related deletion discussions. PriceDL (talk) 01:16, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per NOM. Dolescum (talk) 01:21, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. HowTos are not what Wikipedia is for.L3X1 Happy2018! (distænt write)  03:14, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete as pages that function in the most part as a how to definitely fail our first pillar. And a mental health how to at that... I really hope this gets SNOW deleted in the absence of a fitting speedy deletion criterion as this could be picked up by a victim and who knows if this is right... And good call not necessarily waiting the 7 days of a PROD, Huon. Undoubtedly not a valid search term and reason against preserving the article's history at that, so certainly no redirect, even with a merge (not that that's going to happen). Huon explains the rest better than I could. Happy  New Year ! ///  J  947  (c · m)  05:15, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Also delete and split into two separate articles per Joe. No reason to preserve the article's revision history and even then redirecting would be biased towards one topic of the current article. And still, please can this SNOW?  J 947  (c · m)  20:46, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep The only how to info is in the grey rock method section and even that is truncated. There is specifically no such info in the no contact rule section. The article is primarily about the concepts rather than giving how to info. The article fits in well with the cycle of abuse, personal boundaries, don't feed the trolls, keep your head down, keep a low profile and lie low concepts. The hoovering section is specifically an adjunct to cycle of abuse.--Penbat (talk) 08:12, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Split and rename. I think there's an encyclopaedic topic here. Or rather two topics. It's really just the bad title that frames it as advice. Split it into no contact rule and grey rock method and focus on expanding it with references to psychological and counselling literature. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 10:52, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep Known medical techniques such as surgery, even psychological in nature, are encyclopedic. The fact that this is not strictly physical surgery does not exclude it from medical information. Psychological 'medicine' is most certainly of interest and not a how-to. Cirrus909 (talk) 02:32, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Woah. What? Psychological surgery? I hope you're not referring to psychic surgery. Are you suggesting that these self-help techniques are akin to surgery??? I don't understand what you're getting at with this comment. Apologies if I've misunderstood. Famous  dog   (c) 10:14, 2 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Unsure, renamed at the very least While no contact rule & grey rock method might be subjects to include on WP, redirecting them to this article as it stands does not seem correct as I'm sure you could use these concepts on other people as well as abusers. Mattg82 (talk) 20:26, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Might go better on WikiHow ? DS (talk) 21:26, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete Relies on some pretty ropey self-helpy sources and lifestyle journalism. If these two techniques are so notable, they should have their own articles with much shorter titles. Famous  dog   (c) 10:09, 2 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment I proposed a move to Grey rock method a few months ago which was closed as No Consensus; I still feel the title is clearly non-encyclopedic and should be changed. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 23:38, 4 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Rename to "Self-help advice for dealing with abusers" or delete (as I previously suggested). I oppose splitting, because that will result in having two low-quality articles instead of one (and will encourage creation of even more articles as additional techniques become identified). —BarrelProof (talk) 01:23, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Every pop psychology self-help technique ever proposed, sourced to websites of questionable reliability like queenbeeing.com and lonerwolf.com, doesn't deserve an article in a serious encyclopedia. FireflySixtySeven (talk) 16:36, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per well explained nom. It is ridiculous that an article can be created, in clear violation of policy (not having self-help articles) (and others) on Wikipedia, and then the work involved in "possible" removal. Otr500 (talk)
 * Extra comments: We have comments to keep the article, I suppose just to "push the envelope", even offering "Rename to "Self-help advice" (or delete)". Three references each on both "concepts make it seem well referenced but is actually just ref-bombing. A problem is the "combining" of Disengaging from an abuser, with one "method" the self-explanatory "no contact rule" and a totally different "grey rock method", is a problem when the combination is synthesis (even in the title), which is part of the no original research policy. Moving the title to "Grey rock method" would just be a shorter title and combining two different concepts. There should be no place on Wikipedia for any of this combining. I am not stating either "concept" is not likely notable on their own but this article and the self-help concept is more often than not biased. Both have controversies (like references, "no contact rule after breakup" and conclusion that it dosn't work and "Do You Sabotage Yourself With the Gray Rock Method?) but the "feel-good" concept of "helping yourself" will usually leave that out, certainly against WP:5P2. Note: I am against sites like lownerwolf (not reliable source) because the articles almost always conclude with advertising to buy, as opposed to just editorials: lonerwolf.com; COMPLETE WORKS MEGA BUNDLE, so a person reading and identifying with the reference, would need to invoke some form of "grey rock technique" to avoid being sucked into the bundle offer. Otr500 (talk) 01:35, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Behavioural science-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:16, 8 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.