Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Disney XD (Europe, Middle East and Africa) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of Disney XD TV channels. Not a hoax, but either way it doesn't really pass WP:GNG. ansh 666 05:37, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Disney XD (Europe, Middle East and Africa)
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Non notable TV channel, Fails GNG. – Davey 2010 Talk 15:25, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Just to note the prev AFD closed today as No Consensus - I had no idea the article was even nominated, Anyway pinging who nominated the prev one. – Davey 2010 Talk 15:33, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. Hoax thus fails GNG, there was never an EMEA channel for Fox Kids, Jetix or Disney. Previous, AfD arguments for keeping said hoax was original false research using sources that indicate a Central & Eastern European (CEE) channel that expanded to Turkey then Turkish speaking countries in Asia amounted to a Pan-European (????) channel then split into CEE and Turkey and Middle East channels plus the existence of a South Africa channel must mean the channel function for all or most European nations. But there were the UK, Scandinavia, Italy, France, Spain channels per 2008 Annual Report which shows no Europe, Middle East and Africa channel. Bizarrely enough the Fox Kids/Jetix CEE channel is also apparently the root source for Disney Channel (Europe), when Jetix CEE (although listing as Romania, Moldova, Russia, Turkey, Bulgaria and launched in February 1999 instead of April 1999 - no channel is listed as launching in February) was split at change over to Disney Channel Bulgaria, Disney Channel Romania based on the MAVISE database run by European Audiovisual Observatory under contract with the European Commission. Spshu (talk) 16:13, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete hoaxes don't fail GNG as such, they fail WP:V, which is more serious. We have plenty of information on Disney Europe without having to worry too much about the mostly irrelevant intricacies of their corporate structure, but the point is this channel was planned, scrapped before anything happened and never launched. It is a fair assessment to say it never existed. I suppose this is a bit complicated for most people to bother with, it didn't get any interest last AfD. Dysklyver  17:02, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep: I can't believe that user Spshu is lying about the aforementioned AfD. Either that, or the user misunderstood the whole point of the previous AfD. First of all, I stated my points using sources from the original Fox Kids archives, such as the Fox Kids Europe Annual Review and Financial Statements 2003, the Fox Kids Operating and Financial Review 2000 and finally the Fox Kids Annual Report from 2001. As I claimed before, chronologically the Central and Eastern European channel was launched in April 1999 (noted on the Annual Review of 2000 and 2003 and even the Jetix 2008 Annual Report at page 16). The CEE channel was later expanded to Turkey in May 2000 available first on Digiturk and then on Turkish Telecom on July of that same year (noted on the 2000 and 2003 Report, the latter one stating the covering of that expansion to other Turkish-speaking countries including Azerbaidjan and Kazakhstan). By this point, it could no longer be called a Central and Eastern European channel, but a pan-European one, since its availability spanned Russia, the CIS members States, the Balkan countries and Turkey by 2000. In November 2000, the Fox Kids 2000 and 2003 Anual Reports stated the network launched a new channel service for the Middle East for Arab countries. Now, the Jetix 2008 Anual Report (as well as the 2006 Annual Report and the 2007 Annual Report at page 17) mentions the Turkish and the ME operations to had begun in April 2000 as a one and solely feed. By now, the channel has turned from a CEE feed, then a Pan-Euro feed, and finally a MENA feed, since its coverage includes most of Eastern Europe, CIS States, Turkey, the Middle East and North Africa. The only explanation why the Turkish/ME section is not listed separated into two different operational feeds on the Jetix 2008 report is this: the MENA feed was split into two channels, one focusing on the Eastern European/CIS operations, and another one focusing on Turkey and the Middle East, which had to occur in March 2004, prior to the Jetix rebrand when the channel was still named as Fox Kids. Before the rebrand to Disney XD, as Disney was rebranding some CEE-based channels to Disney Channel to make the first entrance of the Disney brand into those territories instead of relaunching them as Disney XD, the Jetix MENA feed entered in ex-Yugoslav countries replacing the CEE feed, which was going to rebrand itself as Disney Channel, considering those ex-Yugoslav nations already received the EMEA feed of the Disney Channel (available also in Poland and Turkey at the time). After the rebrand, Disney XD MENA (consisting by now of Turkey, ex-Yugo countries, the Middle East and North Africa) enters the African TV market through an agreement between the Disney and South African-based satellite TV provider DStv, available throughout Subsaharian Africa.
 * So, can you please tell me how can the Fox Kids reports be original false research? --Bankster (talk) 18:00, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Explained above. You could not follow the argument at the previous AfD and twisting things I said. I had to continually correct you. You have not shown any sources to support the existence of an EMEA channel. The Jetix Reports show a CEE (which temporarily covered Turkey) and Turkey/ME.
 * GhanaWeb: "'Since its global launch in 2009 Disney XD has been a phenomenal success. Over the past 20 months, we have launched 14 Disney XD channels across EMEA and we are proud to be launching Disney XD today in Africa.' Maciej Bral, Vice President Disney Channels CEE and Emerging Markets commented..." See not a single EMEA channel but 14 DXD channels!!
 * TheNet - no indication this was any particular channel much less EMEA.
 * Bizcommunity.com:  "Disney XD was globally launched in 2009 and, over the last 20 months, it has managed to launch 14 Disney XD channels across Europe, Middle East and Africa, according to Maciej Bral, Disney Channels VP and MD for emerging markets." - again 14 Disney XD channels in the EMEA. Spshu (talk) 19:15, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * you keep continuing missing the point. As in the previous AfD, I didn't say the CEE/EMEA feed was launched first, I stated the EMEA feed was actually launched. You keep ignoring the fact that while countries such France, the UK, Spain and Germany were getting their own localised channels, the Central and Eastern European feed was expanding itself to other countries outside of its original geographical coverage. Unlike other channels such as Cartoon Network, Fox Kids localised feeds were launched at par with the regional ones. I've shown you the sources and you kept ignoring them, given the fact that these make sense and make a chronology for the channel to gain such name. The three African references I've cited clearly mentions the launch of the channel in Africa, not the launch of an African feed which isn't even insinuated. One of the 14 channels being present in EMEA (which in fact there are only nine) is the proper EMEA feed, covering (as I mentioned before) the Adriatic nations, Turkey, the Middle East and Africa. I still have to explain the whole issue but you either misunderstand it or don't want to listen. --Bankster (talk) 22:15, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I understand the issue. At no point do your sources have an EMEA channel. You are synthesizing it from primary sources. With an EMEA channel version you are saying that Fox/Jetix/Disney Europe has only one channel or individual country channels are the exception not the rule.
 * 2000 report: "... on the back of new channel launches in Italy and Turkey, a full year of technical costs for our Central & Eastern European service which launched in April 1999..." new channel in Turkey "...The launch of our pay-TV channel in Germany in October 2000 will further enhance this expansion and will complete the Pan-European roll-out of our channel platform, covering all major markets." List of channels from Subscriber Growth by Channel: "Italy, Spain, Poland, Nordi Region, France, Central Europe, Uk & Ireland, Netherlands" No European, Middle East & Africa channel, not even an European channel.
 * 2001 Report: "... adding a Hungarian channel ... extended with a Czech language feed ..." "... a new channel service for the Middle East (excluding Israel) ... includes Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen."
 * "... with Middle East Communication Holdings B.V. ... we launched a fully localised channel for Israel" A Middle East channel but not even a CEE&ME channel and still no European, Middle East & Africa channel, not even an European channel.
 * 2003 Report: June 2001: "Fox Kids becomes the most widely distributed children's channel in Europe and the Middle East, reaching 24.9 million households and broadcasting in 54 countries via 11 channel feeds in 16 languages" October 2001: "Channel launch in Greece" 2002 September: "Fox Kids Europe reaches 32.3 million households. Now broadcasting in 56 countries in 17 languages via 12 channel feeds"   2003 September "Fox Kids Europe now reaches 34.8 million households in 57 countries in 17 languages via 12 channel feeds"  Again no indication of 1 channel serving the bulk of Europe, Middle East and Africa.
 * 2006 Report: "Jetix reach....Channel feed UK; Central & Eastern Europe, Netherlands, Italy, France, Poland, Scandinavia, Spain; Hungary‚ Czech Republic and Slovakia, Germany, Turkey & Middle East, Israel, Greece" Still no EMEA channel.
 * 2007 Annual Report at page 17: "Our broadcast channels": "UK, Central and Eastern Europe, Netherlands, France, Italy, Poland, Spain, Scandinavia; Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia; Turkey and Middle East, Germany, Israel, Greece" Still no EMEA channel.
 * 2008 Annual Report: "Our broadcast channels": "Central and Eastern Europe, UK, Netherlands, France, Poland, Italy; Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia; Scandinavia, Spain, Germany, Turkey and Middle East, Israel, Greece" Still no EMEA channel.
 * The list of Disney XD channels in Europe at MAVISE doesn't not list an EMEA channel
 * There is no current Disney XD EMEA channels. Onus is now completely on you,, and has been on you. Spshu (talk) 15:14, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You're still missing points. I've stated several times that the Fox Kids network was launching localised channels at par with the regional feeds in Europe; an example of that is the UK channel which was launched in 1996. When am I claiming either the EMEA channel was launched first or that it covered most of Europe? Even that source doesn't mention a new channel in Turkey as you say, you might want to check that out.
 * Fox Kids 2000 report: Our Central & Eastern European channel service was extended successfully to Turkey in May 2000 on Digiturk, Turkey's first digital satellite platform, and shortly after on Turkish Telecom's cable system, in July 2000. This channel service has subsequently been extended to cover other Turkish speaking countries including Azerbaidjan and Kazakhstan. Also in May 2000, we completed the geographical coverage of our Nordic service and now cover Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland and Iceland. The same 2000 report contrasts the CEE feed expansion to Turkey and the launch of the Nordic Fox Kids channel. It does not mention the expansion to Africa yet, because that happened in May 2011 when the channel was already rebranded as Disney XD, twelve years later. By 2000, as you noted above, the CEE/Pan-Euro channel expanded to the Middle East and North Africa. The chronology is there, but you're reluctant to accept it.
 * Fox Kids 2001 report: the Jetix 2006, 2007 and 2008 reports (all embedded in my first keep argument) lists Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia operations as separate ones, not linked to the CEE feed, already expanding its coverage to Turkey and the MENA region. Again, you're proving my point about the Turkish and Middle Eastern operations being linked together as a sole feed since there isn't any "Middle Eastern" Fox Kids/Jetix/Disney XD channel per se, also stated on the Jetix reports. Israel had an independent Fox Kids feed launched in 2001 as part of that deal with Middle East Communication Holdings, later rebranded in 2005 as Jetix and then turned into an independent Disney Channel.
 * you're reluctant to comprehend this matter. You mentioned a made out cite from a reference which states a different stand on you, you're still unable to understand that the EMEA channel was launched after the inauguration of the UK feed and served Eastern Europe, Turkey the Middle East and North Africa in a gradual way and not all of a sudden, that the channel entered to the Sub-Saharan African market just 6 years ago already rebranded as Disney XD via satellite TV provider DStv and still insisting on it. --Bankster (talk) 07:48, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I do comprehend this matter and I prove none of your points. I revamped/rewrote the DXD, the list of DXD, Disney Channel Worldwide, Jetix articles. I found no EMEA channel in my research. There has been no source that indicates a continual EMEA channel from Fox Kids to Jetix to DXD to present day not even starting as CEE. Turkey & Middle East and CEE were recognized as separate channels in the later annual reports (2007, 2008). Some of the annual reports are unclear in some spots it says Turkey channel and some places CEE feed covering Turkey. Just the CEE article would say it was extend to Turkey then served by its own channel. Turkey & ME article would say that Turkey was served by CEE before getting its own channel. That is the most you might get from your sources. Since there is no direct mention of an EMEA channel, you are WP:SYNTHESIS its existence. Spshu (talk) 15:23, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Look, maybe it does exist, maybe its a hoax. However lets assume its real and passes WP:V, fine, then we consider WP:GNG, well its not going to pass GNG with the existing sources, that's a given, but imagine somehow more were found, and it passed GNG, then we have WP:CORPDEPTH, it is almost impossible in my view that it would pass CORPDEPTH, I do not think the sources are there, so it would still be deleted. Period. In short, save time and go make a userspace draft where you can add bits until it will pass the requisite tests. Dysklyver  00:37, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of Disney XD TV channels I believe all of Bankster's sources, but at the end of the day this is basically the usual 'carries most of XD's programs without local deviation outside dubbing/subtitling' feed with the usual joke 'sourcing' to fanblogs and the company's .com.tr/schedule site (and even to the Jetix site; why are we sourcing to their equivalent of SEC forward looking statements? It's not 2002 any longer). Redirects are cheap; as is though, this article is dire.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 04:30, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * (changed threading of next response to above my comment, no refactoring done; Spshu, you've been here long enough to know how threading works.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 23:53, 14 November 2017 (UTC))

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment - Just to note I've moved the "This debate has been included" notices down, I've removed "Comment" from Spshus reply and last but not least I've changed the indents so both Spshu and Bankster are now replying to each other (and it makes more sense) - I don't usually like to edit anyones comments but everything on here was so mishmashed so had to do something, Many thanks, – Davey 2010 Talk 00:19, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   20:58, 20 November 2017 (UTC) Note: This debate has been included in the No original research/Noticeboard. Spshu (talk) 22:55, 21 November 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: A quick reminder: When commenting please stick to the subject at hand. Cite policies and/or guidelines when possible. And be brief. For the love of G--, be brief!

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem (talk) 01:48, 28 November 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Final relist

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Baby miss fortune 03:35, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of Disney XD TV channels, after all it is just a localized feed of Disney XD.--Rusf10 (talk) 23:18, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.