Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dołęga-Zaleski and Dołęga-Mycielski


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus.  MBisanz  talk 20:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Dołęga-Zaleski and Dołęga-Mycielski
AfDs for this article: 
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Bottom line, those two families of Polish nobility don't assert their notability nor cite any reliable sources. Wikipedia is not a genealogy of family history nor a host for non-notable people or families. I am listing those two families at AfD because the prod nomination on their pages was removed. For further details, see archived discussion on notability of Polish families at WikiProject Poland and the new proposed guideline to what makes a family notable at list of Polish nobility. PS. I am not including the Dołęga-Ossowski article in this nomination;; while I still dispute its notability at least it has some content...Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:27, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions.  —Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:30, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. The basic factual information in the articles, that the Dołęga-Zalescy and Dołęga-Mycielscy families were once Hrabia (Counts), is not disputed by the nominee. IMO, that means they were notable once, and notability is timeless.  I could also be slightly concerned if the nominee is on a personal mission to purge info from Wiki based on self-made notability criteria, for which (in my interpretation) there is no obvious  consensus.  Earlier deletion discussions  seem to have been based on genealogy concerns (difficult to say now, when the article is deleted), but I see no such issue here.  The articles are mere stubs, but this is not a valid reason for deletion - it could be a reason to demote the information to a List of Hrabia though.  The verifiability issue is not an acute or critical problem here - the Dołęga, the Mycielski and the Zaleski  (in various transliterations) - can be verified, so I would give them the benefit of doubt, if verifiable sources could be found for articles.  Online verifiability of families of old Counts is expectedly difficult, but a manual check at the Polish National Library should be a relatively simple task, and that would settle the issue once and for all. [I'm personally frustrated with these notability discussions, which I consider inherently subjective.] I'm probably leaning heavily on WP:NOTPAPER in my support, and I may be a minority around here.  I would like to laud the nominee for an overt and transparent nomination, thanks for alerting me to the issue on my talk page. (added links) Power.corrupts (talk) 09:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I tend to be an inclusionist myself, but I draw the line at articles which state little but: "This family existed." Unless it can be shown that this family was notable, it has no place on this project, I am afraid. Did it have several notable members? Did it influence the history or economy of the region (or the country)? Unreferenced claim that the family had a title of a count just doesn't cut it, I am afraid. PS. Polish Wikipedia has a list of Polish count families (pl:Lista polskich rodów hrabiowskich); Zaleski family is there, but not the Mycielski. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Undecided I have found nothing regarding Dołęga-Zaleski in Google-Books, and I have found nothing of any value on the net, the names seperately do appear in Boniecki's work but are not listed together. It appears to me that the articles are probably meant to be Zaleski family, part of the Dołęga clan/Coat of Arms.  Same goes for Dołęga-Mycielski, although one relevent google book result pops up for Dołęga-Mycielscy, though it is only a snippet.  I will check more source material before coming to a conclusion.  --Milicz (talk) 00:56, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep if we're taking about the Zaleski's and Mycielski's of the Dołęga clan. The Zaleski family is notable under the Polish wikipedia guidelines, the Zaleski's of the Dołegą coat of arms are written up by Niesiecki (available in Google Books).  Same goes for Mycielski . "Kronika żałobna rodzin Wielkopolskich od 1863-1876 r" By Teodor Żychliński writes about the Mycielskich quite extensively and both noble families have plenty of source material to rummage through. Clearly the articles need to be sourced, but the families are notable as Zaleski and Mycielski. --Milicz (talk) 01:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. I have no problem with stubs but even stubs should contain enough info to allow determining if the subject is notable or not. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 18:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete depending on the meaning of "Count" if it was one of the lower levels of the nobility, the family is not notable. (just like English baronets are not)DGG (talk) 05:48, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If the information about them being counts was even referenced... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.