Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Domestic discipline


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Deleting this kind of meaning (i.e. BDSM). and/or, you are most welcome (and I doubt the delete-supporters disagree, to recreate a new article about the term in historic context.  So Why  21:09, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Domestic discipline

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Despite the title, this article is narrow BDSM term used to promote one web site in WP:ADVERT fashion. No indication that the terminology is used with this meaning elsewhere. The third-party article linked is about "Christian Domestic Discipline", and it's hosted on a personal web site. It's not even clear if that article is addressing the same topic, because the Wikipedia article makes no mention of religious issues. VG &#x260E; 01:40, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions.   -- VG &#x260E; 01:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.   -- VG &#x260E; 01:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. This Google News archive search generates about 288 references. -- Eastmain (talk) 02:07, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete. Not notable enough for an encyclopedia entry. Shreditor (talk) 02:27, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge what can be verified into Discipline Mister Senseless&trade; (Speak - Contributions) 03:07, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge I feel sure there must be something rather better on the subject than this article, though I am not sure what. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:48, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the numerous reliable sources with substantial coverage back to the early 19th century and publications from around the world, in the Google News archive search cited above. Many are only available via subscription to Proquest or the publication's pay archives, but it is clear that "domestic discipline " has long been a subject of discussion in the media. See an 1872 article which describes a North Carolina Supreme Court ruling on "domestic discipline". NY Times 1916  discusses a husbands "ancient privilege of maintaining domestic discipline with sticks not exceeding the size of his own thumb" in relation to a wife's pledge to "obey." Domestic discipline generally refers to someone in authority beating someone he has authority over, and there are many references to it. Edison (talk) 17:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't think that the old sources pointed out by Edison cover the same concept, even if they use the same terminology. From the Wikipedia article: Practitioners argue that DD is distinct from domestic abuse because consent is involved. Some also argue that it differs from erotic spanking because the object is mainly discipline, rather than sexual arousal. The only source to use DD with this meaning is that website linked at the end of the article. VG &#x260E; 13:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment The usage in the 19th century and more recent cites refers to the same thing: maintenance of order in the household by punishment or the threat of it. It was definitely not considered abuse by the commentors, not by the head of household, and not, generally, in retrospect by the recipients of it. Edison (talk) 20:02, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you're engaging in pure WP:OR here. VG &#x260E; 20:04, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The references are not OR. It is pretty plainly stated. Please read WP:OR. Edison (talk) 01:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment -- when I was a young teenager my older brother was a college student. I raided his bookshelf on contemporary politics.  I borrowed his copy of Abby Hoffman's "Steal this book", "The autobiography of Malcolm X" and Eldridge Cleaver's "Soul on Ice".  A decade later, after his exile in Algeria, living underground in France, Eldridge Cleaver became a "born-again" Christian, and wrote a new, different biography, "Soul on Fire".  He returned to the USA, and tried to get work on the Republican born-again speaking tour.  I found something very remarkable about Cleaver's transformation.  Prior to becoming a self-educated political activist in prison Cleaver had been a criminal.  Among his crimes was rape.  As a political activist he justified raping white women by claiming, although he didn't realize it at the time -- raping white women was a political act.  Raping white women was a step along his path to personal political liberation as an oppressed black man.  Then, as a vastly transformed Republican and social conservative he wrote something I found remarkable.  He wrote that Christianity endorsed a husband beating his wife, using violence to enforce discipline on his wife.  So, what we had here was an individual who had gone through at least two transformations -- from criminal to revolutionary -- and from revolutionary to political conservative.  Yet through all these tranformations he had consistently endorsed violence against women.  The reason I brought this up is that it suggests to me that there may be room for an article on "domestic discipline" that has nothing to do with BDSM.  Cheers!  Geo Swan (talk) 03:10, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete as WP:OR. Springnuts (talk) 15:10, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Article is almost entirely Original Research. The single reference that is listed largely conflicts with the content of the article and isn't a Reliable Source anyway. Kaldari (talk) 16:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - OR and POV problems; shamelessly confuses multiple topics. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.