Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dominic Cervi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus, defaulting to keep. There is an undeniable consensus that he fails WP:ATHLETE - but the point has also been well-made that he seems to satisfy our general notability criteria all the same. Please note that per WP:BIO (of which WP:ATHLETE is a subsection) the overriding criterion is whether or not the person has been covered by reliable sources, a claim that has not been refuted in this discussion. Judging this subject per WP:ATHLETE alone is losing sight of the forest for the trees. Shereth 16:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Dominic Cervi

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Player has not sufficiently satisfied the notability requirements for a soccer player. GauchoDude (talk) 02:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete. Fails WP:ATHLETE as the person has not competed in the highest level of amateur sports, nor is in professional sports. ff m  15:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  17:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep - The definition of notable athlete is: WP:ATHLETE Competitors who have competed in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis. Competitors who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports.
 * Comment A Senior national team call-up may notable. Matthew_hk   t  c  19:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, fails WP:ATHLETE. A call-up does not make a player notable unless he actually features in a game. --Jimbo[online] 19:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Do Olympic qualifying matches provide notability? I thought they did. Jogurney (talk) 20:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:ATHLETE, in addition the Olympic team is not a senior team, so I don't really think it confers notability. --Angelo (talk) 21:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:ATHLETE. Recreate when/if he becomes notable. GiantSnowman 02:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 02:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:ATHLETE. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  15:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - while he does not satisfy WP:ATHLETE, he does satisfy WP:Notability, which takes precedence - reliable, third-party source coverage. See, for instance, (about 3 or 4 of the articles focus specifically on him). He was also a first-round draft pick in the 2008 SuperDraft - I believe we have kept several of those articles in the past (now it's mostly a moot point since most of those players have made appearances in MLS by now). Incidentally, this is pretty much irrelevant but it seems quite strange that we should have articles on every MLS keeper, most of whom are American, yet we are going to delete an article on the guy who Bob Bradley has selected over all but one of them in his squad for WC qualifiers! But as I say, that's irrelevant, I guess. ugen64 (talk) 02:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

He meets it clause (a) as both the U-23 Men's Team and the full National Team are professionals participating in the Olympic league or the World Cup league. A league is not so myopic to be defined as the MLS or OPL. Just in case you are not aware, the players on the National Team do get paid to play for their Country's team and there is not a higher level team than your Country team. National team soccer is not an amateur sport, even in the Olympics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jambrick (talk • contribs) 14:40, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - The definition of a notable soccer player is clearly outlined by Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Notability (can be found here), which states he has to 1. play on a fully professionally club (which he doesn't), 2. played in a competitive fixture between to fnpl clubs such as the fa cup or equivalent (which he hasn't), 3. play a senior international game or in the olympics (which he hasn't). Rule 4 would not apply as he is not pre-professional era.  The fact that he will "eventually" play in the Olympics is null and void due to WP:FUTURE.  If/When he appears, then recreate the article.  GauchoDude (talk) 20:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete University soccer is a common way of American soccer player to become professional, FIFA U-20 World Cup often became University Stars XI, but they were yet to be professional despite played for U23/U20 team. Also, he is not the unused second goalkeeper against Barbados. Matthew_hk   t  c  15:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This is what I don't understand - it appears that American footballers aren't considered American athletes, because notable college athletes in other sports, including baseball, basketball, and American football are all considered notable, not because they have played in the highest level of professional sports (they haven't), but because one can find reliable third-party sources focusing on their college careers. Yes, in the five years I've been here I have heard of WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS once or twice, but the fact is, one must take into account the different systems used in sports throughout the world - in the US, only a select few players actually play professionally before finishing four years of college, while in Europe, it's even more unheard of for a professional footballer to succeed after going to college for 4 years. Applying WP:ATHLETE to the letter excludes some perfectly notable Brazilian footballers because of the dichotomy between state and national competitions (oh, wait, no it doesn't - but that's an argument for another place altogether), and it does as well to some notable Americans. ugen64 (talk) 16:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.