Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Don't Tell Mama


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. exists is not the same as written about Spartaz Humbug! 06:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Don't Tell Mama

 * – ( View AfD View log )

(Hopefully the category is correct.) I doubt that this bar is notable. My speedy deletion was declined last month because it was regular seen in 'Friends', but in my eyes this isn't enough for getting its own article in an encyclopedia. Moreover it is totally unreferenced and I can't find any good reliable source. mabdul 09:51, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  —Tom Morris (talk) 10:18, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Oppose The venue is 2 blocks from Times Square, has been in business for 30 years and is obviously well known enough (Google alone!) to have its own article. SergeWoodzing (talk) 14:33, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 15:05, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: please read WP:GHITS. I know that there is a bar in Wiesbaden for over 35 years, but that is not any reason for getting an entry in this encyclopedia, there might be hundreds of thousands bars out there which are long business. Please provide relaible sources! mabdul 16:13, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Please read Times Square! And then stop giving me orders! I do not need any advice from you of any kind.
 * And WP:OSE may also be of interest to you.
 * You have no idea how tiresome that argument is: this person is no more important than I am, so why does h/s get a WP article?!?!
 * Who ever said "hundreds of thousands bars out there which are long business" all should have articles? Why ever infer something sarcastic like that, rather than sticking to this subject?
 * This article in no way does any damage of any kind to English WP or the project's credibibilty.
 * I have a right to my opinion, you have a right to yours. Respect that, please!
 * If you wish to judge this article according to "Wiesbaden" standards (however that's supposed to be relevant?), and keep trying over and over again to get it deleted, that's your prerogative. Let's hope a New Yorker or two will join the discussions, and that you do not succeed with this campaign of yours.
 * PS: Wiesbaden is a very lovely town, I've been there several times. But it ain't Times Square. SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:23, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear: I didn't want to attack you, I wanted to explain only, that being long in business is not a real argument to be notable. (also that GHits are not meaningful with that generic name) mabdul 02:56, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete, couldn't find any non-trivial mentions. Maybe redirect to Living in a Moment, which contains a song by this name. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 18:07, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete, sources are the bar website and a trivial listing from 2004.Tigerboy1966 (talk) 18:18, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Company website claims: DTM is located on Restaurant Row in the heart of the Theatre District. An award winning venue, featured in numerous TV Shows from “Friends” to “Saturday Night Live”. Performers who began their careers at Don’t Tell Mama have gone on to become the $100,000 Grand Prize Winner on “Star Search”, win the Emmy, Grammy, Tony, Oscar and the Pulitzer Prize!. Maybe (just maybe) notability could be established by tracking down notable awards and notable performers? --Northernhenge (talk) 19:46, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Doubtful with the awards. "Award winning" is usually a red flag for "non-notable award that means as much as a gold star on your test". Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 23:37, 25 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete; fails the GNG. I would advise SergeWoodzing not to make the discussion personal, and to assume good faith. If the subject is notable, feel free to demonstrate that. bobrayner (talk) 20:20, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and I'm sorry if I seemed to make the discussion personal! I have tried very hard for years to try to understand WP deletion policies, which seem liberal in some instances and strict in others, but I have come not one iota closer to successs. I sincerely regret getting involved here. SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:56, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No biggie. AfD is a rich natural source of drama - people often find it stressful. bobrayner (talk) 11:09, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Weak keep - it's certainly famous in NYC, but it may not be notable in the usual sense. 22:38, 29 November 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearian (talk • contribs)
 * Weak delete — well-known, yes; famous, no. — Robert Greer (talk) 00:37, 1 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete as lacking in-depth coverage by independent third party sources. If such sources are added to the article, feel free to ping my talk page. Stuartyeates (talk) 21:49, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete It gets a few mentions in serious New York media, but these are along the lines of "so-and-so is appearing at..." rather than being ABOUT the venue. And I don't really think that being in business for 30 years qualifies this cabaret, or any other business, as remarkable. --MelanieN (talk) 03:28, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment to Ten Pound Hammer, who suggested a possible redirect to Living in a Moment: If this title were to be redirected anywhere, it should be to Cabaret (musical), which contains a very well known song by this name - a song that this cabaret is named after. --MelanieN (talk) 03:33, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.