Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Don Rittner


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Subject is notable but consensus is that the current content needs gut timing and starting again. ?? Spartaz Humbug! 07:46, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Don Rittner

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Notability: Article is self promotion and it appears very likely that it was written by the individual that the page is about. "No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists: The evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition, and that this was not a mere short-term interest, nor a result of promotional activity or indiscriminate publicity". The sources provided do not support notability or significant independent coverage or recognition. Lastly, this article was created by a guest user and then edited by user "Drittner" and clearly is a Autobiography -- TheKilimanjaro (talk) 23:39, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

The references are questionable. One of them is a vague reference to a county biography, another is the subject's own blog, and a third is a dead link. --TheKilimanjaro (talk) 00:06, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:36, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:36, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:36, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:36, 4 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete unless improved -- This is a bad article, but it could be that the subject is notable. Autobio is a serious objection; and I would like to see is much better citation of his publications: are they books or merely pamphlets?  Being a local historian does not make him notable.  What is his contribution to the two encyclopedias: Did he edit them (perhaps notable) or merely cointribute articles?  Equally, I presume he contributed to magazines, not wrote them entirely.  If these issues cannot be addressed to prove notability, the article must be deleted.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:28, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete unless improved -- As has been said, this is a bad article: written like a resume, much self-promotion, much that is irrelevant, scanty references (many of which are unreliable). However, if he has published that many books at a national level I'm inclined to think there might be some justification for an article... just not this article. WalkingOnTheB (talk) 09:57, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep It's a terrible article, self-promoting, very few in-line sources. However, Rittner has some notability as a local historian, author (real books on local history), regular online columnist for Times Union (Albany).  Keep the article and prune it / tag it.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:34, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Aside from the quality issues throughout this article, I don't see how he meets the notability test in any way, shape, or form. "The evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition." Next to nothing in this article is sourced. The sources provided do not meet the test of significance in my opinion. --TheKilimanjaro (talk) 20:39, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nakon  23:39, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "To help track down some of these rare beings, we enlisted Don Rittner, a longtime advocate for the Karner blue and the founder of the Pine Bush Historic Preservation Project, which was organized in 1972 to protect the region's flora and fauna. When we made our rendezvous with Mr. Rittner -- in a diner parking lot off Route 155, just 15 minutes from downtown Albany -- he was wearing a straw hat to protect against the strong sun, and he seemed highly optimistic about our chances of seeing Karner blues. Let's go look for the insect that stopped millions of dollars of development, he said cheerfully. We drove for just five minutes down Route 155 before Mr. Rittner pulled his Subaru Outback off the highway and into an inconspicuous dirt turnout -- not the first place you would think to look for an endangered species. From the road, the home of the Karner blue doesn't look like much. The words stunted and scraggly come to mind. But Mr. Rittner begged to differ. I fell in love with this place the first time I saw it, he said."  The article notes: "SCHENECTADY — County historian Don Rittner, an outspoken, fedora-wearing and occasionally caustic commentator, has lost his $25,000-a-year post in a round of cuts during an austerity budget passed this week by county legislators. ... Rittner, 61, of Schenectady had been the Schenectady County historian since 2005. He had also been the city historian, but that salary was taken away last year during budget cuts. He is a widely published author of books on computers and history, a Times Union blogger and volunteer director of the Schenectady Film Commission. ... Rittner said the $10,000 in savings achieved by cutting him was a tiny fraction to the economic development he brought to the county through his efforts to bring to the area in recent years construction of a replica of the historic sailing vessel the Onrust, the feature film 'The Place Beyond the Pines' and the interactive road race 'Fireball Run.'"  The article notes: "The city recently started Troy nights, encouraging businesses to stay open later on Fridays, but in a just-published book about the history of Troy, people will get the chance to see that around the turn of the century the Collar City was a bustling downtown. Images of America: Troy, by local writer Donald Rittner, features photographs from the 1850s-1930s of Troy's people and places. To be able to walk down the streets of Troy and to be able to see the history and know the history is comforting, Rittner said. History as a grounding force is important to Rittner who has been a city archaeologist for Albany, conservation manager for the Pine Bush, who now owns the Learning Factory, hosts a radio show and publishes an Internet magazine. I'm bouncing off the walls, Rittner said, adding that the book gave him a chance to showcase his passion for history, which remained constant no matter what job he had. ... Rittner, who lives in Schenectady, spent his formative years in Troy, walking streets bejeweled with historic architecture. One of his favorite childhood pastimes was tossing a magnet up against cast-iron store fronts. ... Although the book was just released, Rittner, 48, said the idea had kicked around in his head since he was 20 years old. But Rittner had no idea how to proceed, so the idea was shelved until February, when serendipity struck at Barnes and Noble. While buying a book on fossils, Rittner noticed a small paperback, Cresson, about a place near his hometown of Gallizaton, Pa. On impulse, Rittner bought the book. When he got it home, Rittner soon discovered that his coal mining father, Robert, was in the old photograph on the cover. The next day Rittner called the publisher and said he would love to do a book on Troy. Arcadia Publishers in Dover, N.H., as a part of its Images of America series, has published books about Clifton Park, Malta, Ballston Spa and will soon be releasing Brunswick, by Sharon Zankel."  The article notes: "Don Rittner has always had a radical way of seeing the world. This time it's in stereo. Rittner, of Schenectady, a well-known environmentalist and local activist, has brought out a quirky and charming book of stereo photographs titled 'Hello, Goodbye: Disappearing Artifacts and Landscapes of the Hudson- Mohawk Valley.' ... Rittner, 41, has spent much of his life accentuating a contrary view. He was expelled from Troy High School in 1964 for long hair and a bad attitude. 'I wouldn't tuck in my shirt,' Rittner recalls. 'I've always had this need to rebel, to break out of the system.' He earned a degree in anthropology and environmental science at the State University at Albany and a master's degree in urban environmental studies from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. In the 1970s he was an architect for the city of Albany and became the city's Pine Bush preserve manager in the mid-1980s. He isn't embarrassed to admit he was fired twice by the city. 'I wouldn't shut up,' he says. There is a touch of anger in 'Hello, Goodbye' at seeing paradise lost. The soul of the book is Rittner's deep and abiding love for Albany's Pine Bush, a unique environmental artifact that appears several times in the book. 'I was born in my grandmother's house by a mid- wife and there was a big pitch pine in the front yard,' says Rittner, son of a coal miner who grew up in central Pennsylvania. 'I think that might explain why I've lived and breathed Albany's Pine Bush for the last 20 years.' More recently, after leaving a position as director of the Troy Neighborhood Council, Rittner started up a local alternative journal, Hard Copy, modeled on The Nation."</li> <li> The article notes: "At his house near the Union College campus, in an upstairs bedroom converted into a computer center, Don Rittner has the world at his fingertips. By punching a few keys on a Macintosh keyboard, Rittner can discuss environmental issues with scientists in Moscow, research a topic in libraries from Australia to Switzerland and send letters of protest against proposed oil refineries in South America. 'The Mac has set me free,' Rittner says. 'I have access to the best scientific minds, the finest libraries and universities in the world, supercomputers and about 40 million people - all without leaving my room.' The rules may have changed, but Rittner's game hasn't. The longtime environmental activist and catalyst in preserving the Albany Pine Bush is still raising hell on behalf of Mother Earth. He's just not leaving a paper trail anymore. In his new book, 'EcoLinking: Everyone's Guide to Online Environmental Information' (Peachpit Press, Berkeley, Calif. $18.95), Rittner offers personal computer owners the key to global environmental activism. The book is the first guide of its kind to explain and catalog the growing trend of environmentalists using personal computers and modems to link up with each other. Rittner describes these computer networks and shows a PC owner how to access them. ... Rittner, 42, took his own leap of faith, casting aside the security of a steady job when he became a full-time free- lance computer writer and systems operator four years ago. Rittner has worked as a columnist for computer magazines; started his own online MUG News Service featuring information on environmental issues; operates the environmental forum for the American Online service and has future book projects on global computer networking in the works."</li> <li> The article notes: "After decades of protest and organizing, the long-time Capital District social activist has a new outlet for his moral discontent: Hard Copy, a free, monthly news magazine due out by the end of January. While Hard Copy will be published on newsprint - cheaper than glossy paper - its 8 1/2-by-11-inch, 40-page format will resemble weekly news and opinion magazines like The Nation. Rittner, in fact, is modeling his quixotic project on the country's oldest progressive journal. 'Like The Nation, it's gonna be progressive but we're not really radically left. I'm a liberal. I'm not afraid of the big 'L' word,' he said. Rittner, a computer hacker, will also publish Hard Copy electronically, on computer bulletin boards across the country and overseas. Besides an initial press run of 15,000 copies, the magazine may reach thousands of readers around the world. ... The first issue will feature a story about bats, an interview with a Nicaraguan economist, a column on gay and lesbian issues, a review of a Troy hot dog stand and three pieces on housing and homelessness. The issue of homelessness is especially dear to Rittner, who is executive director of the Troy Neighborhood Council, a tenants' rights organization. He lived on the streets of Troy for four years as a teenager, sleeping in doorways and all-night diners. Rittner, 40, was born in Galizaton, in central Pennsylvania, the son of a coal miner. When he was 2 years old and the mines closed, Rittner moved with his family to Troy. His parents split up when he was 8, and Rittner was thrown out of Troy High School in the 10th grade for having long hair (a grown-out crewcut in 1964) and wearing his shirt outside his pants. Then his mother threw him out of the house. 'It was tough, but I knew it was temporary. You see, I was always a bookworm. I was learning all the time and I knew I could do more,' he said. Rittner returned to school, eventually getting degrees in anthropology and environmental science from the State University at Albany and a master's degree from RPI in Urban and Environmental Studies."</li> <li> The article notes: "The Learning Factory -- which offers a wide variety of 90-minute evening classes at $29, created with the notion that mom will continue her education while the kids hang out and shop -- is the latest career permutation for Rittner, 46. In the 1960s, he was a drummer in the local rock band Horton Strong (opened for the Grass Roots at SPAC's inaugural rock show). In the 1970s, he was Albany city archaeologist. In the 1980s, he was Pine Bush preserve manager and environmental activist. In the 1990s, he was Internet guru, author of numerous online reference books and publisher of a free monthly cyberspace magazine. In between, Rittner has come up with many extravagant concepts -- he wanted to solve the problem of missing children with the Internet, for instance -- some of which have taken flight. Despite failures, Rittner remains an unrepetant dreamer and visionary. ... I need to stir the pot, so every 10 years, I change my life, says Rittner, who, with his wife, Nancy, has two children, Kevin, 5, and Chris, 3. They are expecting their third in the spring. Thanks to big dividends from his America Online stock, Rittner last summer took a sabbatical from an online writing career, unplugged and assessed career options. He wanted to start a business that would combine his interests in teaching, computer technology, publishing and unconventional learning."</li> <li> The article notes: "Don Rittner — archaeologist, artist, Schenectady Film Commissioner, former Schenectady County historian, mastermind of events and proud wearer of fedoras — finds his inspiration from people who create: those who can take a wisp of a thought and realize it in the material world. He hopes to do just that with Inspiration Week, an eclectic slate of events designed to ignite, excite and embolden."</li> <li> The article notes: "If we're going to find lasting solutions to today's ecological dilemmas, environmentalists need to approach their crusade with a global perspective. Don Rittner's new book, 'EcoLinking,' demonstrates how computer networks, bulletin board services (BBSs), and online services provide the ideal medium for environmentalists to converse with knowledgeable people and tap stored reservoirs of information around the world. 'EcoLinking' teaches you how to access different kinds of networks in order to explore your own particular areas of interest. The book's fact-filled pages are supplemented by entertaining feature boxes, recalling instances where online research has helped to protect the environment. ..."</li> <li></li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Don Rittner to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 23:57, 10 April 2015 (UTC) </li></ul>


 * There are numerous other sources in a HighBeam search for "Don Rittner". The New York Times article, the Times Union articles, and the book reviews demonstrate that the Don Rittner is notable. From http://www.timesunion.com/living/article/Blogger-profile-Don-Rittner-1451407.php: "Don Rittner has been blogging with the Times Union since May 2009." So before May 2009, he was not affiliated with the Times Union so the newspaper can be considered an independent source for the purposes of establishing notability. Cunard (talk) 23:57, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm failing to see how a handful of old TU articles makes him "notable" or how a few articles qualifies as "significant coverage". I still think that is a major stretch of the definition. How is this meeting the criteria: significant independent coverage or recognition? Do a few (mainly local) articles scattered across 3 decades constitute significant coverage? I don't think it does. I don't agree with your conclusion but I do want to commend you for the detailed and organized response. --TheKilimanjaro (talk) 19:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Notability defines "significant coverage" as: "'Significant coverage' addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." It is clear that the sources here "addres[s] the topic directly and in detail". Notability is not temporary and that there has been persistent coverage over several decades strongly supports notability. Furthermore, the subject received significant coverage in The New York Times, which for me demonstrates he is notable.  Cunard (talk) 00:10, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Two newspapers with an infrequent mention of Don Rittner is not widespread. That NYT article is about butterflies and they happened to interview him. That doesn't make him worthy of an encyclopedia entry. Every single subject matter expert that's had a mention here or there over the course of their life isn't worthy of an encyclopedia entry and the sources in the article are so spotty its not even clear if he actually is an expert on these topics. "The New York Times article, the Times Union articles, and the book reviews demonstrate that the Don Rittner is notable." --> No, it doesn't. It demonstrates he's had some very minor coverage of his activities from time to time. What Wikipedia is not ---> there is a lot of self-promotion going on in this article and it is obvious that Rittner himself has been editing the page and contributing substantial blocks of unsourced text, What Wikipedia is not > A lot of people are mentioned in newspapers every single day. It does not mean that they deserve their own entry in an encyclopedia. "Biography articles should only be for people with some sort of fame, achievement, or perhaps notoriety." He isn't famous. He has no major achievements that warrant an entry in wikipedia. --TheKilimanjaro (talk) 03:17, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Notability requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" where "significant coverage" is defined as "address[ing] the topic directly and in detail". His "fame" or "achievement" is receiving enough coverage to pass Notability. Cunard (talk) 23:35, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Worthless content like this damages wikipedia. Not only has this individual not done anything of note, but he's cooked up a wikipedia page inflating his accomplishments. Disappointing that anyone thinks this belongs here. This is a clear example of not seeing the forest for the trees. --TheKilimanjaro (talk) 22:46, 18 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep per the extensive list of sources provided by Cunard above, adequate to meet GNG. I add that this article is a piece of promotional gunk that needs to be ripped to shreds by a diesel mechanic with a blowtorch. Carrite (talk) 00:43, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.