Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Donetsk People's Republic–South Ossetia relations


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 19:19, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Donetsk People's Republic–South Ossetia relations

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Is this topic notable? Two puppet states of Russia, each one of them recognized another one, but there isn't even an embassy of DPR in South Ossetia or vice versa. Also there isn't, of course, enough coverage in RS, and the article is mostly repeating the information on DPR and South Ossetia themselves, not on there fictional relations. Wikisaurus (talk) 17:34, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Georgia (country),  and Ukraine.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. The two entities are disputed territories that have been almost immediately annexed by Russia. They haven't existed long enough to have formal relations with other countries much less other disputed territories. RPI2026F1 (talk) 20:06, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * To clarify, South Ossetia hasn't been annexed by Russia. Only the DPR and the LPR have. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 14:35, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Meets WP:GNG. In addition to the four sources in the article, I see the following sources: a 2018 piece in the Washington Post detailing how South Ossetia has established banking ties with the DPR to circumvent Western sanctions and allow Russian money to flow in; on banking relations, I also see Eurasianet from journalist Nikolaus von Twickel, who seems to have written quite a bit with The Moscow Times; and this piece by Hromadske also covers the murky financial ties between the two "separatist republics". We also have Ukrainian media covering South Ossetia's recognition of Donetsk (Interfax Ukraine), which followed this piece, already cited in the article; and two paragraphs from Nouvelle Europe on the DPR-South Ossetia relationship here. I also see coverage in the EU and US-funded JAMNews newspaper here. Of course, we also have a flurry of primary sources and local state-affiliated sources which likely cannot count towards the GNG like here, here, and here, and here. The nominator is also not entirely correct on the embassies part of their nomination, because there actually is a South Ossetian representative office in Donetsk (Representative Office of South Ossetia, Donetsk, a page which should probably be further scrutinized for GNG compliance) and a DPR office in Tskhinvali (TASS). You even get some "state visits". In conclusion, while these two polities certainly struggle with recognition, they seem to have enjoyed a bilateral relationship for 8 years which appears to me supported by multiple, reliable, in-depth, secondary coverage. Pilaz (talk) 23:02, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The minor detail is that the DPR isn't actually a self-declared state at the present time. Russia annexed the DPR on 30 September 2022, and it is now simply a Russian republic rather than an independent entity (note: the status is still disputed, obviously). Jargo Nautilus (talk) 14:37, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The fact that one of the two polities ceased to exist (?) does not mean the subject of the article, namely the relations between the two polities between 2014 and 2022, must also cease to exist. Wikipedia currently maintains quite a few well-sourced articles about the bilateral relations of defunct polities. Pilaz (talk) 12:10, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep - Despite the fact that both the DPR and the LPR have been annexed by Russia, South Ossetia itself is still a separate entity from Russia. Furthermore, it is my belief that the situation in South Ossetia (and Abkhazia) is different from that in the DPR/LPR, even though they might appear superficially similar. South Ossetia and Abkhazia have long histories as autonomous regions in Georgia, and their ethnic/linguistic makeups are distinctive. Their histories of de facto independence stretch back over 30 years, which is much longer than the DPR/LPRs' histories of just eight years. The DPR/LPR are indeed less distinctive than South Ossetia/Abkhazia, less independent, and much younger in terms of their political status, but that doesn't disqualify South Ossetia/Abkhazia automatically; these are two separate issues. So, the article is really flimsy on the side of the DPR/LPR, but it has a decent rationale on the side of South Ossetia/Abkhazia. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 14:43, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep. All 4 sources are valid. Moreover, according to WP:RSPSS, TASS "is considered reliable for quotes of statements made by the Kremlin, the Russian State, and pro-Kremlin politicians". Therefore, the TASS source is also valid to quote the South Ossetia's president. Dr.KBAHT (talk) 20:06, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.