Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Donuts N' Glory


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 02:40, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Donuts N' Glory
AfDs for this article: 
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Seems like a borderline case, but appears to currently fail WP:MUSIC. SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Response to deletion proposal
I added info about the band being one of the first releases by Liberation Records. The band is listed on Liberation's website as being in high demand for additional releases, and the label is hoping to release some of their older recordings. Hopefully that is enough to overcome A7 for speedy deletion.

Web info on the band is pretty scarce (aside from their inclusion in seemingly every lyrics site), and I think it would be a good resource for all available information to be collected here in one place. Bosterson (talk) 22:04, 23 September 2008 (UTC)Bosterson — Bosterson (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.   —Eastmain (talk) 22:20, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete they may meet one of the many criteria at WP:MUSIC but, unless it's made clear which one in the article (and referenced) I have to stick with delete for lack of notability and verifiability. Jasynnash2 (talk) 09:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think I can prove notability under those criteria. The point was for this page to be a repository of any information other people can dig up. All I have been able to find is that they released one album. I cannot find any record of tours or any reviews of their music (which I'm sure exist somewhere). Obviously, as a very small independent punk band, they never received any major media attention or were nominated for any popular awards. As such, I can only conclude that Wikipedia's criteria for music notability are extremely biased towards the narrow category of mainstream music distributed by the media companies. If the only way to be notable is to have been popular (which can only happen if your music is promoted by a mainstream media outlet, and is impossible for bands that deliberately reject the mainstream music labels), then small, independent, and counter-culture bands by definition cannot be notable. Surely it is important to keep a record of what society as a whole was listening to during a given period, but there is no reason to not also make note of the range of different groups, regardless of mainstream popularity. This is the internet, and space is, after all, free.  Bosterson (talk) 20:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry you can't find the stuff needed to make a reliable article but, to call Wikipedia biased towards mainstream when WP:MUSIC is one of the loosest criteria for inclusion I've ever seen is a bit out there. Lots of articles on here are about non-mainstream bands and such. Jasynnash2 (talk) 08:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * All I'm saying is that, without using the WP:MUSIC criteria as justification, why shouldn't this band be included in a broad, online, cultural encyclopedia? And if, by definition, this band never won any major music awards, made any music videos, released anything on major labels, or was featured in any major music publications, then how can its notability be proved? I assume the solution is to delete this page and just have then band's name listed on the Liberation Records page, but if this page combines info from the other handful of pages about the band out on the web - if it is the most comprehensive source of information - then obviously a mere mention on a different Wikipedia page is not going to be as useful for the public. If someone wants to delete the page, go for it; I'm just saying that it seems like a Catch-22. Bosterson (talk) 16:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Shortest answer I can give is if they don't meet the criteria set out by the project in WP:MUSIC or in the more general WP:N than to put it bluntly they simply aren't worthy for gathering the information here as wikipedia is not a webhost. Use one of the various actual webhosts outthere though until they become notable in accordance with the criteria above though is perfectly acceptable and as long as it isn't in violation of one of our policies inclusion in an appropriate external links section may be deemed okay but, there are policies and guidelines for that to. Jasynnash2 (talk) 16:31, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  treelo  radda  00:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:24, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete, article fails to establish notability as per WP:MUSIC.   Esradekan Gibb    "Talk" 12:13, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.