Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Douglas Baker


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. \ Backslash Forwardslash / (talk) 01:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Douglas Baker

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

This WP:BLP subject claims direct descent from divinity, but so do many, many others. The only absolute claim to notability I can see is the authorship of very many books, and on checking the British Library catalogue I find 80 or so. However, they are published either by 'D. Baker' or by 'Baker Publications', or by Claregate College which the author established. The only source actually cited is his own website and I have not found any other independent sources. Therefore I do not believe the subject is truly notable; in addition there is a matter of controversy over his history. Sam Blacketer (talk) 22:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, no evidence of notability, and these publications can be treated as self-published. Nyttend (talk) 01:12, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. amazon.com has quite a lot of books with named publishers, so I don't think it is true that he only self-publishes.  He's a nutcase, but that isn't reason for deletion either. Zerotalk 15:06, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  23:39, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

I personally know Dr Baker better than many, though I have not had anything to do with him and the Claregate college since the late 90's, I'll stand up to vouch for him and his writings. My best friend moved to London late 80's meet and married his wife, who's brother works for Dr Baker. I was first told of Dr Baker through my best friend. then he came out to Australia with Dr Baker on a lecture tour, 1993 I believe...where I sat in on his lectures in Sydney and met him and his other staff. I spent a lot of of time with them all during that lecture series, and I was given numerous books of Dr Baker's to read when they left. Dr Baker came back for a few more lecture tours the following years, 94 and 95, I volunteered to come on tour with them spending upwards of two weeks at a time working and living with Dr Baker and his staff, sharing every meal etc. I came to know the man behind the lecturer that only a hand full of people got to see. Dr Baker always said he is only putting the ancient wisdom into the language of the day, and to study all the great works out there. That I have tried to... I have many many books of what are called the great works by the Theosophical Society written by authors such as Madame H P Blavatsky, Annie Besant, Alice Bailey, C W Leadbeater, J Krishnamurtti, Geoffrey Hodson, Manly P Hall, G De Purucker A E Powell, C Jinarajadasa, Mabel Collins and others such as the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita...... Oh and all of Dr Bakers 100 or so books.... What strikes me having read all these hundreds of book on the one massive subject... is... that no book contradicts any other book.. they all are saying the same thing.... So either it is one huge cover up over hundreds of years, or they are all telling the truth.... I tend to think the latter.. The proof is in your own research. The problem, with comments Dr Baker makes, to the ordinary man on the street is their understanding of what he is actually talking about, They are taken too literally. Dr Baker says he is immortal.... people then think well he'll die soon and that will show us he's not... You need to understand what Dr Baker means by that. Of course he is not talking about his physical body.. he doesn't relate his body as being himself .. it is his spiritual self, his soul, his higher self that is immortal.. and it is that part of him that he recognizes as being HIMSELF. The same about the comment that he is from the divine... we all are.. all our souls are... so he is not excluding everyone else out by saying he is from the divine... he means that we all are a spark of the divine, a spark of God...Like Jesus said, I am the son of God... we all are the son's and daughters of God ... though at that level we are neither male or female. So I say read up to see that what Dr Baker has written is only what has been written about in spiritual texts since man has been able to write, and see truth and collaboration in each and every one of these hundreds of books written... you just have to understand the language they are written in at the time.... you will see the thread of truth in all of them with no contradictions. I cringe at many contemporary writers touted today, I see contradictions in a single book... yet these guys are put on a pedestal and praised for THEIR insight... Dr Baker has never claimed that his writings are his own, but only Ancient Truths passed down from time immoral.... Many of the current day new age authors offer the "easy way" their way, to spiritual unfoldment, people love them and they become very popular because they don't have to do anything for it. But Dr Baker never says it's an easy path, he says it's the hardest thing you'll ever do... hence the main stream so called spiritual people don't follow his handed down teachings, and he is not touted as a main stream author or given great write ups in the main stream commercial spiritual circles, and he'll say so and call authors on some crap they may write, so he is almost feared and revered by many authors. Omnisk8 (talk) 00:16, 17 October 2009 (UTC) — Omnisk8 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Weak delete As I can't turn any up any signifigant discussion of him in reliable sources. (Being a fringe self-published author might do that). But given the volume of stuff published, it wouldn't be surprising if there were articles that establish notability somewhere. Keep if they get found, but otherwise delete (since I couldn't find any) B figura  (talk) 04:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep The article is (almost but not quite entirely) the work of User:Solar who originally asserted the subject has "written over a hundred books on various esoteric subjects, which it is claimed makes his works the largest collection in the world produced by a living author" - may be weasel words, but sounds notably prolific. Lectured  at Theosophical Society and described as "renowned esotericist", so while fringe, not "fringe of fringe". Amazon turns up mentions (of Douglas M. Baker) in "Guide pratique des élixirs floraux du Dr Bach by Roger Halfon", "The Alchemist's Handbook by John Randolph Price" and at least 2 other authors.  I don't believe a controversy or slow edit war (about two points) is a reason to delete. --Cedderstk 18:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete without prejudice. The article provides no evidence or reason to suppose notability. Good faith search of online sources do not identify any significant independent coverage of him or his (numerous) works in reliable sources. Bongo  matic  05:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep and add more. I'm not a regular here at all, I stumbled across this and can't believe what the issue is, to have Dr Baker deleted. Misunderstanding of what he says seems to be the only reason here, and the fact that others have not written a lot about him and therefore he is not cross referenced.... right ? Maybe some first hand insight might help his case. ?
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.