Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dr. Ángel Óscar Ulloa Gregori Museum Room


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Users and  improved the article after its nomination by adding references to the article. The majority of commenters at this discussion have argued that these sources demonstrate the subject meets our notability criteria (i.e. GNG) but without a source analysis backing up that claim. and questioned that the sources were significant enough to meet GNG or NCORP, but they also provided no source analysis to rebut the keep arguments made by the majority of commenters. The questions surrounding the quality of sources in relation to GNG and/or NCORP remain unanswered by both keep and delete voters. With the lack of a strong policy based argument with supporting analysis on both sides, the result is no consensus. Given that this discussion has been re-listed multiple times already, a further re-listing is not warranted. No prejudice against a re-nomination if the nominator is willing to do a source analysis as outlined at WP:SIRS. Any further issues with the title can be sorted out on the article's talk page. (non-admin closure) 4meter4 (talk) 18:08, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Dr. Ángel Óscar Ulloa Gregori Museum Room

 * – ( View AfD View log )
 * Dr. Ángel Óscar Ulloa Gregori Museum Room :
 * Sala Museo Dr. Ángel Óscar Ulloa Gregori :

non-notable ; i would ordinarily say merge, but this would be a merge to the faculty of medicine which does ot I think yet have an article, and a merge to the main university would be disproportionate coverage  DGG ( talk ) 08:41, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 08:53, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 08:53, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Museums and libraries-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 08:56, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep. I added a newspaper article that starts out with memories of the Spanish Flu of 100 years ago but whose final third is about this little museum. The two journal articles are mostly about the career of the doctor who donated his collection to the museum, but they both mention the museum. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 09:31, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * keep; obviously there has to be a cut-off point where a museum is not very notable, but in general museums are interesting to our readers, and they are, like us, involved in the spread of information. It isn't great for the look of GLAM if we expunge articles on museums without careful thought. 's efforts are appreciated on this one! Elemimele (talk) 11:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I feel like the content is appropriate and should be kept, but concur with DGG that a university merger would be undue. Thinking some on where it might make sense, if a standalone isn't it. I think if it is kept, it needs a better article name as that is not helpful to the English speaker looking for it. Star   Mississippi  17:17, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Prior AfD is Articles for deletion/The Museum Hall "Dr. Ángel Oscar Ulloa Gregory" I thought this subject looked familiar when I saw it come across my alerts. No issue with recreation as it was functionally an expired PROD, but so folks have full picture. Star   Mississippi  18:51, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt. Delete because there's no evidence that this passes WP:NBUILDING or WP:NCORP/WP:NGO; notable article subjects need to have significant coverage by multiple independent reliable sources in either case. Salt because this was recreated by the same editor whose previous article was deleted. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 03:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  12:51, 6 October 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment it would be inappropriate to salt in this case. If the article had been discussed at AfD and deleted as a result, its recreation without significant new sources would be wrong. But since it was soft-deleted without a single comment, this must be taken as, functionally, an uncontested PROD as per User:Star Mississippi. Not everyone hangs around on Wikipedia all the time; it's quite possible to miss a complete PROD or AfD merely by being away a week. There is no obvious mechanism to undo a soft-delete or uncontested PROD except recreate the article and wait for a "proper" AfD (which this now is); as such nothing's gone wrong yet. Should this debate end in "delete", then creation of the same article for a third time would render it saltable. We should also be rather cautious in salting articles on subjects that may well become notable, museums being likely suspects: once something has been salted, it's rather hard to create an article (that's the point!), so it should only be done to things that we think are almost certain to remain non-notable, in the face of repeated re-creation; not to things that might reasonably become notable, in the face of a single re-creation. Elemimele (talk) 16:36, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep sourcing is adequate and has been improved since nomination. Per WP:PRESERVE, there is verifiable information here and this should be kept, if there is no valid place to merge it this shuold be retained as a separate article for now. NemesisAT (talk) 10:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Can you please identify the three best reliable, independent, in depth sources that provide notability. While the creator has added links, I do not see anything that meets criteria. Star   Mississippi  14:04, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   09:19, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Naming comment: If the article could legitimately be titled "Dr. Ángel Oscar Ulloa Gregori Museum" it would come across better to all concerned here. I get that it started in, and/or is contained in, one large room, but the point should be that it is a museum. The article is to be about the museum, not the room that it is in, and the room itself is probably not separately notable.  There will be very few individual rooms or halls in any museum which get separate articles, though perhaps there is some great hall holding dinosaur skeletons in the American Museum of Natural History in NYC which might be separately notable from the museum, say.  Using the term "Hall" would be better, too.  In English language names of buildings at universities, a "Hall of Languages" or a "Hall of Science" or whatever might mean an entire building/department.  A hall can be understood to be a bigger thing than a room, e.g. see University Hall (Ohio State University).  But in English a room is literally just one open space enclosed by walls.  Are you sure that it does not have a coat closet for visitors, or any storage room/space at all, or any other kind of closet, or a bathroom (even if only for use by staff not the general public)?  If it does, then calling it a "Room" is incorrect in English, and translating as "Hall" or otherwise would be better.
 * So, can a proper translation be "Dr. Ángel Oscar Ulloa Gregori Museum" or similar? If not, could some translation using "Hall", like "Dr. Ángel Oscar Ulloa Gregori Hall of Medical Artifacts" or "Hall of Medical History" or whatever, be used?--Doncram (talk) 21:52, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep. Although it is odd that the title suggests the topic is the room not the museum, I interpret the article to be about the museum.  And although it could be developed more, it is about a museum open to the public, and wp:ITSAMUSEUM (an essay I helped develop) applies. --Doncram (talk) 21:52, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: The deletion nominator suggested that merger to the university article would be difficult, but was apparently not aware of a List of medical museums which is pretty much a list of medical history museums, AFAICT. I just added mention of this one.  Merger to an expanded entry in that list-article would be preferable to deletion, although I see there is not yet expanded treatment of any of the named museums there.  I !voted for and prefer "Keep" however. --Doncram (talk) 22:00, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Naming comment should this be kept (whether keep/no consensus or merge) I agree with that Hall would be a much better name as we don't require a literal translation for the English language name of an article and I assume wikidata magic could connect the articles regardless of precise name.  Star   Mississippi  00:15, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The only circumstance in which "Room" should be used in the name is if being a one-room museum is specifically a significant feature that is a core characteristic of the place, to be promoted and celebrated. Like they would never put in a partition wall and they would never move it to a larger multi-room space.  Like how historic one-room schoolhouses in rural areas of the United States are notable for being operated by just one teacher.  Google searching on "one-room museum -school -schoolhouse" yields a couple hits:  this one about a tiny modern art museum being transported from Guatemala to Los Angeles, and this one in Wellington New Zealand for fans of Lord of the Rings.  There certainly are many museums that are in fact in just one room, like I am aware of some Masonic local history museums that occupy an empty, one-room upper floor in a small building, but the fact that they have a single room is not something they are proud of, not something promoted or acknowledged. --Doncram (talk) 19:05, 20 October 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't think anyone is advocating for "room". I'm guessing English isn't the creator's first language and s/he took a best guess at naming. Star   Mississippi  19:56, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Right. And the prior article name was "The Museum Hall "Dr. Ángel Oscar Ulloa Gregory", as in Articles for deletion/The Museum Hall "Dr. Ángel Oscar Ulloa Gregory" which you pointed out was the AFD. The direct site seems to be called "Sala Museo Dr. Ángel Oscar Ulloa Gregory" or similar; i think avoiding the "Sala" part of that makes the most sense, so it can be "Dr. Ángel Oscar Ulloa Gregory Museum". --Doncram (talk) 20:14, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, as there is adequate sourcingJackattack1597 (talk) 21:27, 21 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.