Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Drifter (person)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Vagabond (person). v/r - TP 21:39, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Drifter (person)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

There has been a discussion going on at Talk:Drifter (person) about whether to merge the contents of this article into Vagabond (person) (essentially deleting this article), some editors there are of the opinion that the two articles describe the same concept, whereas some others believe the concepts are distinct. The discussion is getting into a quagmire so it was decided to bring this to AfD for further input. I'm opening the AfD procedurally because the article is currently fully protected so no one else can do it. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 04:36, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect The two articles, and the sources cited within them, seem to treat the two words as interchangeable. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 04:37, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect as per nom, no need for two articles on the exact same subject. Dayewalker (talk) 04:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Support for Keep and/or Improve
 * Neutral for Delete
 * Strong Oppose for Merge and/or Redirect (See my explanation here: Talk:Drifter (person))
 * Vagabond and Drifter are not the same. Vagabond is a homeless wanderer who doesn't go further than from one end of town to the other, but rarely or never out of the known area. Drifter is a homeless traveler who never stays at one place (be it town, city, or even a country) for a longer time. The only thing a Drifter and a Vagabond have in common is that they are both Itinerants, and it makes as much sense merging them together as would merging apple to orange (fruit) based on the fact that they are both Fruits growing on trees.
 * I don't have a problem with either article at the present moment (except for the Vagabond article calling Vagabond a Drifter, which may cause a distraction like this), but for those who do think either article is inadequate, it would probably be a better idea for them to work on the article in question to have it improved, make the distinction clearer and overall the subject(s) expanded with reliable sources. 202.111.188.125 (talk) 13:56, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem is, so far you have not provided any sources that make this distinction; as far as I can tell you are only reporting your personal language intuitions. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 21:32, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Nor have I provided sources to prove that an apple is different from an orange, for one simple reason: I don't have either at hand, nor do I have the time to look for them. We have been over all this at Talk:Drifter (person), so I'm not sure why you are even bringing this up again, other than the fact that you have a personal issue with certain editors who have turned a redirect into a decent article. 202.111.188.125 (talk) 22:06, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete WP is not a dictionary. Besides that this article seems to be an attempt to create a neologism. The source says only: "A person who is continually moving from place to place, without any fixed home or job." The article says, citing the same source: "Drifters are self-sufficient anticonformists who never stay at one place for a longer period of time, and continually move from one location to another with no fixed destination, living a completely free, fulfilling life."BigJim707 (talk) 14:19, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia already has too many irrelevent articles.64.206.83.25 (talk) 17:25, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If you wish for your !vote to be considered here, please clarify what you mean&mdash;why do you think this article is "irrelevant"? r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 21:30, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Really? Now you are deciding whose vote counts and whose doesn't? Someone needs to bring this whole thing to Administrator's noticeboard/Incidents, including the stuff that was discussed on Drifter's discussion page. It's obvious now that this group (you - the administrator, the other editor, and the IP) want this redirect/merge forced through. I would do it myself, but I'm busy with other stuff in real life. 202.111.188.125 (talk) 01:15, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge This is a good case for proper application of the policy WP:DICDEF which tells us that "In Wikipedia, things are grouped into articles based on what they are, not what they are called by.. A vagabond and a drifter are much the same thing per the OED which has:


 * drifter, n. A man following an aimless, irresolute, or vagrant way of life.
 * vagabond, n. One who has no fixed abode or home, and who wanders about from place to place; spec. one who does this without regular occupation or obvious means of support; an itinerant beggar, idle loafer, or tramp; a vagrant.


 * It is therefore correct to cover them together. Note also that we have many other such words and related concepts which are listed at itinerant and so the main question which arises is which is the best title for this concept of the wanderer/vagrant/vagabond/drifter/itinerant/nomad/&c.?  But we do not have to settle this question here, just decide that the title should not be deleted and so remain a blue link. Warden (talk) 18:17, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Warden (talk) 18:17, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect, the distinction this article attempts to make between a 'drifter' and a 'vagrant' (that the former are self-sufficient free spirits, and that anyone who 'drifts' because they're not able to function in mainstreem society is not a 'drifter' but a 'vagrant') is uncited. The only sources available treat the terms as essentially interchangeable. -- 68.33.14.232 (talk) 22:52, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge without prejudice to vagabond, which mentions romanticized notions of the drifter in Hollywood films. "Vagrant" has been used in a more cruel and legalistic manner and doesn't seem as close a match to modern ears.  Eventually reliable sources (especially literary sources) may emerge to draw a distinction between drifters and vagabonds, but the distinction is too fine for it to be productive to keep separate articles at this stage in development. Wnt (talk) 19:07, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment As a response to Rjanag who started this AfD and has tried to silence me with an attack on my personal talk page - no, you are not being unfair and trying to get the article deleted, you are in fact being unfair and trying to get the article redirected, that is why you've opposed my opinion from the start, and that is why you've opposed the opinion of another person here who said the article should be deleted. Let's face it, you, the other editor, and the IP all showed up on the same day trying to do the same thing, and arguing that the article Drifter needs to be merged to Vagabond because they are similar. They are not the same articles, and because the Drifter article is currently a stub, it needs to be expanded, not redirected. It could be deleted because then there would be no nonsense like confusing Drifter with Vagabond or other types of Itinerants, but it certainly doesn't make any sense to merge it, unless you are redirecting it to the Itinerant article itself. 202.111.188.125 (talk) 16:13, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.