Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Drop Inn Center


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  19:06, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Drop Inn Center

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

run of the mill local organization. Fails WP:NORG and WP:NONPROFIT. Graywalls (talk) 01:22, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Graywalls (talk) 01:22, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. Graywalls (talk) 01:22, 30 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete I guess it's called Shelterhouse now. There's some coverage of it online under the new name. Although, I can't find anything that's not either local or trivial coverage. Maybe someone else can. Until then though, this doesn't seem to pass WP:NORG. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:24, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Strong Tentative keep local sources, as long as they are reliable, are fine; there's no need for national or international attention. Articles on homeless services are few and far between here on Wikipedia, let's try a little harder to find sources for it. I can try scouring some newspaper databases when I'm home from work. ɱ  (talk) 14:12, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Have a look at WP:AUD part of WP:NORG. It's a fail under WP:NONPROFIT, because it's not of national/international scale.  Graywalls (talk) 18:31, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I can't say I agree with this. I write about many local places and issues, and it's sad to see a rule that discriminates against local topics. Nevertheless, this is more than just an agency/nonprofit, much of the article is/could be about the physical building, the homeless shelter. It's more than just an organization, and has to be treated by general notability guidelines moreso. ɱ  (talk) 20:54, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Updating to strong keep based on hundreds of sources in the Cincinnati Enquirer, a regional newspaper of high reputation. ɱ  (talk) 22:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "Nevertheless, this is more than just an agency/nonprofit, much of  the article is/could be about the physical building , the homeless shelter. It's more than just an organization, and has to be treated by general notability guidelines moreso." Strongly disagree. If you haven't noticed, newspapers in many areas routinely talk about sizable buildings being demolished, rebuilt, renovated, named in honor of whatever. If there's a shoe store that's in a notable national historic registry listed building, those articles can not be used to inflate the notability about the article on a shoe store, but if the notable building has a page, then a sentence or two about the shoe store is likely warranted if an article about the building mentions the shoe store. The principles of no inherent or inherited notability may apply here. Some of the articles are primarily about Buddy Gray. The founder being notable, or the organization being notable does not establish notability between both. The founder could be notable, but that doesn't guarantee the organization being notable. Currently, there's an article entry for both. Graywalls (talk) 15:42, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Regardless of our disagreement on that, I provided sufficient sources from across the state and other areas, in many different newspapers. There is no valid argument left for deletion. ɱ  (talk) 03:26, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Also appearing throughout Ohio and Kentucky: the Akron Beacon Journal, the Newark Advocate, the Kentucky Enquirer, News-Herald in Port Clinton, Mansfield News Journal... ɱ  (talk) 22:42, 30 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep: I added four more references from the Cincinnati Enquirer, where the Center has sometimes been front-page news. (See especially "Will the Drop Inn Center be pushed out?" from January 2008.) This is not "local or trivial coverage". Cincinnati is a big city, and front-page news from the Cincinnati area is "regional". I believe that this demonstrates notability. — Toughpigs (talk) 18:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd think that that would count as one, per WP:MULTSOURCES. Graywalls (talk) 18:36, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with Graywalls yhat it should count as one source. I'm also still waiting for you to show me a guideline, or hell even a discussion, that agrees with your whole thing about a local source from a "big" city (whatever that means) counting as a regional one. Especially since you keep using it everywhere to justify keeping articles and in extremely missleading ways. Adamant1 (talk) 19:10, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Here's a nationally-syndicated article from the Associated Press: "Homes for the homeless are where his heart was: Cincinnati complex named for advocate", from January 1999. — Toughpigs (talk) 19:13, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That was published in a local Ohio newspaper. Not to say your wrong that it was "nationally-syndicated", but I'd like to see what national source it was originally published in, if any. Personally, I think it's deeply flawed to treat the associated press like a national news organization, because that's not what it is. Since it operates as a cooperative, unincorporated association. So, just because a minor local newspaper associated with it prints something supposedly by the Associated Press it doesn't automatically make it a national news story or magically turn them into a national news outlet. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * If you look at the clipping, it says Associated Press at the top of the article. The Associated Press is a national news reporting and distribution service, which distributes stories printed in more than a thousand newspapers across America. It is exactly the kind of coverage that you've been asking for. — Toughpigs (talk) 21:05, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I know the article says it's from the Associated Press. The whole "cooperative, unincorporated association" thing was a direct quote from their Wikipedia article and that's really all I know about them. I'm fine using them as a source though. Although, a few people in the conversations I've seen about them have said it's better to cite them directly instead of the paper their article is in. Which is why I mentioned I'd like to know where it originally came from. So the article could cite the original source. I'm not going to nitpick it in this case though. You probably couldn't find the original AP article to cite anyway. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:31, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I just looked at the source shared by . That source is not even close to having the depth of satisfying CORPDEPTH. Graywalls (talk) 03:22, 5 August 2020 (UTC)


 * It's down to those who want to delete it to demonstrate that this is a run of the mill organization. Rathfelder (talk) 19:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * My understanding that it's just the opposite. Would you happen to have the policy stating this? Graywalls (talk) 15:33, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Graywalls (talk) 15:33, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, just about every largish city have ubiquitous homeless shelters. Wikipedia is a global encyclopedia and it's not a local guide or local chamber of commerce business directory. These ubiquitous presence needs to be notable enough to merit inclusion. Graywalls (talk) 19:20, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T. Canens (talk) 17:07, 9 August 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T. Canens (talk) 13:49, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: there are sources and Significant long-term coverage   QueerEcofeminist "cite! even if you fight"!!! [they/them/their] 00:44, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
 * comment What specific sources? WP:GOOGLEHITS isn't a source. The first source that comes up for me is called "In the United States. Congress. House. Committee on Veterans' Affairs. Subcommittee on Health - 2014" documents of those sort are considered a primary source. Graywalls (talk) 00:49, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I provided links to hundreds of news sources from Cincinnati and beyond, above. Please both, take a look at that. There is a wealth of resources here that cannot be ignored. ɱ  (talk) 01:55, 29 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.