Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Duer Yoa


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 07:25, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Duer Yoa

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Non-notable athlete. He does appear to be sponsored by an adidas development program in Australia, however, WP:ATHLETE guidelines state: "People who have competed at the fully professional level of a sport, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis." and "People who have competed at the highest amateur level of a sport, usually considered to mean the Olympic Games or World Championships." I would argue that his 54th out of 108 performance in the JUNIOR race (an 8 km race) of the 2008 IAAF World Cross Country Championships does not reflect competition at the highest level of his sport. Please comment as this vote could help shape WP:ATHLETE. Location (talk) 19:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  --  The  left orium  21:22, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails both WP:ATHLETE (as he hasn't "competed at the fully professional level of a sport") and WP:GNG (as he hasn't "received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject"). GiantSnowman 13:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. Maybe I've missed something here, but is the subject the editor of The Australian? Phil Bridger (talk) 13:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think so; that is a guy called Chris Mitchell. GiantSnowman 13:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Then how is the article cited not significant coverage in a reliable source independent of the subject? Phil Bridger (talk) 13:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I hardly think one solitary good-news piece counts as "significant" coverage. GiantSnowman 13:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. In fact, he meets WP:ATHLETE for having "competed at the highest amateur level of a sport", i.e. IAAF World Cross Country Championships. "Level" here clearly means "level of competition", not "level of performance" because: 1) the rest of the sentence in WP:ATHLETE would not make sense otherwise (..."usually considered to mean the Olympic Games or World Championships"), 2) "highest level of performance" would be hopelessly vague and useless as a guideline, 3) if I'm not mistaken, anyone who ever competed e.g. at the Olympics was thus far de facto considered notable, regardless of his placing. GregorB (talk) 20:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But as Location notes, Yoa has only ever competed at a junior level of a comp. If he had run in the senior World Championships, then I would agree that he is notable. GiantSnowman 20:50, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * (after edit conflict)The nominator introduced the irrelevant information about the subject's placing, but it's still debatable whether competing in the junior section of the world championship is enough to get through WP:ATHLETE. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Still, this would mean that none of the junior athletes would have any chance of meeting WP:ATHLETE unless they also competed at the senior level. True, Duer Yoa could have entered the senior competition, but in some sports (e.g. tennis) this is not possible. GregorB (talk) 21:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * (after edit conflict)Notability for an athlete is generally based on what he or she has achieved, and our task is to evaluate his or her achievements objectively. WP:ATHLETE is a guideline that really instructs us to evaluate only one objective piece of evidence: the level of competition he or she has managed to attain with his or her success. In this respect, this athlete has achieved enough success to participate at the JUNIOR level of world championship. The relevance to showing his placing is to provide an objective assessment of how well he performed at that level: We can clearly ascertain that he is a middle of the pack runner among the second tier of cross country runners. (As GregorB has suggested, a case for notability could be made if someone places very high at the junior level.) Location (talk) 22:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. I'm changing my vote. While I failed to note the difference between junior and senior levels when initially considering this, I feel that my previous remark is still relevant, i.e. that WP:ATHLETE puts the bar too high for junior athletes. If you take it literally, even the winner of the junior race at the IAAF World Cross Country Championships is not notable. GregorB (talk) 21:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. While the Australian article and Adidas sponsorship are of some note, I don't think he passes the threshold of notability. However, it's worth keeping this one in mind for possible restoration at a later date. Should he compete at a higher level – it's a very good basis for the start of an article. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU!  23:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.